Indeed it isn't. The solution is to find a manager who is worth backing and stick with him. Some on here believe Bruce to be just that and it appears the board agree if the comments that Wyness has said he's safe even if we go down are true (if they are then it's a fucking pathetic thing to say at this point in the season). Some of us, me as one of the more vocal members, just don't believe he is good enough to put blind faith behind with nothing to back it up. His career wide win rate is about 37% that's not terrible but it's not the amazing success that some people seem to have projected onto him (for context Paul Lambert, even with his shocking runs without a win for us, has a win rate of 39% and Alex McLeish has a win rate of 46.3% but that is skewed by his time with Rangers).
Quote from: Clampy on February 27, 2017, 01:37:33 PMQuote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 11:15:33 AMQuote from: john e on February 27, 2017, 10:08:08 AMpaul e, why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not ) yet still want him to stay on I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds. I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games. Why do you want people to change their minds? I don't want you to change yours, your opinion is just as valid as mine and Ad's. You seem unable to accept that we think Bruce deserves a crack at a pre-season and for him to go into next. Can you read?I said I'd like to know what it would take for people to change their minds. We got 1 point in 9 games and you were happily accepting it.You say you don't want me to change mine but you've called my opinion wrong repeatedly over the last few months, when we had a bounce you told me I was wrong when I said it wouldn't last if we didn't play better, then we had a run of defeats and you shifted from it being all about results to it being about needing time. I'm normally supportive of managers and I'm normally positive but I just don't see the point in allowing time for Bruce to develop the squad into his team, if that happens we end up as what Hull are now, or what Sunderland were when he left, or Blues, or Wigan, I don't want us to waste a 2nd chance with a rich owner by wasting money on over the hill journeymen and hitting a ceiling again and I don't see how Bruce, long term, is doing anything but leading us down the same path.
Quote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 11:15:33 AMQuote from: john e on February 27, 2017, 10:08:08 AMpaul e, why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not ) yet still want him to stay on I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds. I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games. Why do you want people to change their minds? I don't want you to change yours, your opinion is just as valid as mine and Ad's. You seem unable to accept that we think Bruce deserves a crack at a pre-season and for him to go into next.
Quote from: john e on February 27, 2017, 10:08:08 AMpaul e, why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not ) yet still want him to stay on I don't think that will happen because I think Wyness sees Bruce as a long term option and because I think a large number of our fans have decided that he's the only man for the job and won't put pressure on the board to change their minds.My concern therefore is mostly around why people have got themselves to that point and what it will take for them to change their minds. I don't get this idea that some people have that we have a choice between playing good football or winning games.
paul e, why does it seem you are a bigger critic of Bruce than even me (well maybe not ) yet still want him to stay on
If only we were where Hull are now.
Quote from: Chris Jameson on February 27, 2017, 03:04:38 PMIf only we were where Hull are now.In a relegation battle? Lose the next couple and we might be.
Quote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 07:59:33 AMIndeed it isn't. The solution is to find a manager who is worth backing and stick with him. Some on here believe Bruce to be just that and it appears the board agree if the comments that Wyness has said he's safe even if we go down are true (if they are then it's a fucking pathetic thing to say at this point in the season). Some of us, me as one of the more vocal members, just don't believe he is good enough to put blind faith behind with nothing to back it up. His career wide win rate is about 37% that's not terrible but it's not the amazing success that some people seem to have projected onto him (for context Paul Lambert, even with his shocking runs without a win for us, has a win rate of 39% and Alex McLeish has a win rate of 46.3% but that is skewed by his time with Rangers).We agree Wyness comments on Bruce are ridiculous and ill placed. But I want to understand your first comment. I assume you agree that none of our managers since MON has been "worth backing and sticking with" given many of them have been backed but we have continued to decline. What constitutes such a manager, and why do you think it is that despite the best interests, such an individual has not been appointed in over 6 years?
Quote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 03:56:50 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on February 27, 2017, 03:04:38 PMIf only we were where Hull are now.In a relegation battle? Lose the next couple and we might be.A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.
Quote from: Chris Jameson on February 27, 2017, 04:01:16 PMQuote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 03:56:50 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on February 27, 2017, 03:04:38 PMIf only we were where Hull are now.In a relegation battle? Lose the next couple and we might be.A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.Of course I did but if we'd got a better manager than Bruce we could be on our way there rather than seeing people say that they never expected to go up anyway and we had absolutely no chance because of the 11 league games RDM was given so Bruce should just get a free pass for the other 35.
Quote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 04:11:20 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on February 27, 2017, 04:01:16 PMQuote from: paul_e on February 27, 2017, 03:56:50 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on February 27, 2017, 03:04:38 PMIf only we were where Hull are now.In a relegation battle? Lose the next couple and we might be.A league above us and playing the sort of football most seem to want on here. I think you know I meant that though.Of course I did but if we'd got a better manager than Bruce we could be on our way there rather than seeing people say that they never expected to go up anyway and we had absolutely no chance because of the 11 league games RDM was given so Bruce should just get a free pass for the other 35.Without the benefit of hindsight I thought Di Matteo was a terrible appointment, he had a pre season and signed a load of players without any idea of how to play to their strengths