Quote from: paul_e on February 26, 2017, 12:42:28 PMI was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked. So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you. Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.I see it as we started the season on the same point as everyone else, actually won a game early and then RDM blew it with all the dropped points from late goals which there and then killed off our top 6 hopes imo.So SB came in with a massive handicap (we were in the bottom 3) so I've just looked as this season as a free hit.I do understand the concerns and we must finish the season strongly now. I'd be looking for us to hit 60 points or thereabouts, barely getting 50 won't be good enough.
I was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked. So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you. Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.
Quote from: simboy on February 26, 2017, 02:17:29 PMso the choice is do we continue with the policy that's seen us have seven permenant (and several caretakers)managers in seven years and end up in the second tier of English football or do we try something we haven't tried for a while? A touch of stability. I'm not sure how many transfer windows each manager has had since MON left however getting a team doesn't take one window, instead two or three no matter who you are. Who is bought may not settle in on day one. That doesn't make them a bad buy however a good way of unsettling them and almost guarantee us not seeing them realise their potential is to change the manager who bought them. Changing managers also allows the likes of gabby and Grealish to get away with what they want ... wait six months and a new manager will give them their chance again. I wonder if the attitude change of gabby is that he's been informed by the new regime above Bruce this is it, he's stayed me for at least a couple of years. I'm no real fan of Bruce, his football is turgid and functional from what I've seen. However we are where we are, hopefully the good Dr has got his back room staff right. To change Bruce before he's had the real opportunity to prove he can change the team seems wrong to me at this stage. Quick fixes haven't worked in the recent past and are unlikely to work in the future as far as I see...we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them ... I'm with Einstein on that one What is clear that we have been a basket case since Learner got bored with us and I am hopeful the new regime can get us going forward and back to where we should be.Benitez didn't need multiple transfer windows at Newcastle, nor Hughton at Brighton, Monk at Leeds etc to oversee a dramatic improvement. Bruce and RDM before him have had an unprecedented budget at this level that demands immediate promotion to be honest.I'm all for stability but it has to be earned. If anything we gave the likes of Lambert and Sherwood to mention two far too long. I hope a serious assessment of Bruce's future is done in the summer as I'm thinking there won't be a fraction of the same budget available in the summer.
so the choice is do we continue with the policy that's seen us have seven permenant (and several caretakers)managers in seven years and end up in the second tier of English football or do we try something we haven't tried for a while? A touch of stability. I'm not sure how many transfer windows each manager has had since MON left however getting a team doesn't take one window, instead two or three no matter who you are. Who is bought may not settle in on day one. That doesn't make them a bad buy however a good way of unsettling them and almost guarantee us not seeing them realise their potential is to change the manager who bought them. Changing managers also allows the likes of gabby and Grealish to get away with what they want ... wait six months and a new manager will give them their chance again. I wonder if the attitude change of gabby is that he's been informed by the new regime above Bruce this is it, he's stayed me for at least a couple of years. I'm no real fan of Bruce, his football is turgid and functional from what I've seen. However we are where we are, hopefully the good Dr has got his back room staff right. To change Bruce before he's had the real opportunity to prove he can change the team seems wrong to me at this stage. Quick fixes haven't worked in the recent past and are unlikely to work in the future as far as I see...we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them ... I'm with Einstein on that one What is clear that we have been a basket case since Learner got bored with us and I am hopeful the new regime can get us going forward and back to where we should be.
Quote from: SoccerHQ on February 26, 2017, 04:20:38 PMQuote from: paul_e on February 26, 2017, 12:42:28 PMI was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked. So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you. Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.I see it as we started the season on the same point as everyone else, actually won a game early and then RDM blew it with all the dropped points from late goals which there and then killed off our top 6 hopes imo.So SB came in with a massive handicap (we were in the bottom 3) so I've just looked as this season as a free hit.I do understand the concerns and we must finish the season strongly now. I'd be looking for us to hit 60 points or thereabouts, barely getting 50 won't be good enough.You wrote off the entire season after 12 games?
Quote from: pauliewalnuts on February 26, 2017, 04:57:28 PMQuote from: SoccerHQ on February 26, 2017, 04:20:38 PMQuote from: paul_e on February 26, 2017, 12:42:28 PMI was typing on my phone but the context you gave was about the summer, when RDM was the manager not Bruce and yet after 10 games you were posting that RDM needed to be sacked. So I ask again why didn't he get to use the excuse that you are now using to Bruce?On this you're contradicting yourself almost as much as you do on the match threads where post Barnesley, Ipswich and Forest we'd created loads of chances and deserved something but when we win it doesn't matter how shit we are.What I don't understand is why you think Bruce deserves this commitment from you. Clampy has been very supportive of him as well but he will at least offer criticism where it's warranted without qualification, you can't say anything bad about him without having a excuse ready to go and it's just odd.I see it as we started the season on the same point as everyone else, actually won a game early and then RDM blew it with all the dropped points from late goals which there and then killed off our top 6 hopes imo.So SB came in with a massive handicap (we were in the bottom 3) so I've just looked as this season as a free hit.I do understand the concerns and we must finish the season strongly now. I'd be looking for us to hit 60 points or thereabouts, barely getting 50 won't be good enough.You wrote off the entire season after 12 games?The club didn't or they wouldn't have gone for a quick fix promotion specialist with no experience of rebuilding a club.
It's all just so clueless with Bruce. Banging on about failings of 4 years ago, as if that has any bearing at all on what happens now. It would have if Lerner were still in charge and he'd had no money to spend, but he took over an expensive squad, and has spent a fortune, and yet the football and the results are still appalling.
How can you really say "it is no good continually switching managers", though?Surely it depends who you are switching from, and to whom (and I say that as one who wouldn't sack Bruce)?
Barring another disastrous sequence of results I would be for giving Bruce until the end of the season. But to continue the relationship longer than that I'd want to see us posing the sort of attacking threat that has been absent in most of his games to date. If we don't score from a set piece or a bit of individual brilliance from Kodija, we really don't seem to have too many other routes to goal. That's a clear failing on his part, with the attacking players he's had available pre and post window.
It might have been some optimistic fans objective. Given his and his staffs opinions of the quality of the playing staff they inherited it was never their objective.
Quote from: Risso on February 26, 2017, 05:29:47 PMIt's all just so clueless with Bruce. Banging on about failings of 4 years ago, as if that has any bearing at all on what happens now. It would have if Lerner were still in charge and he'd had no money to spend, but he took over an expensive squad, and has spent a fortune, and yet the football and the results are still appalling.Why is he not allowed to acknowledge the fact that we've been relegated? Isn't that a failing?
Quote from: Clampy on February 26, 2017, 05:35:22 PMQuote from: Risso on February 26, 2017, 05:29:47 PMIt's all just so clueless with Bruce. Banging on about failings of 4 years ago, as if that has any bearing at all on what happens now. It would have if Lerner were still in charge and he'd had no money to spend, but he took over an expensive squad, and has spent a fortune, and yet the football and the results are still appalling.Why is he not allowed to acknowledge the fact that we've been relegated? Isn't that a failing? Missing the point entirely. He was talking about problems of four years ago, NOT relegation. The problems back then were underinvestment and the forced sales of our best players, not things he's had to deal with. The only common theme with the problems of the past is the picking of the wrong manager.