Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[West Derby Villan]

Whatever your views on SB, he has given us a team that we support rather than hate and despise. That is a major positive in our comeback to greatness. I remember how I felt only three years ago about our team and since those rock bottom times I have grown to respect the players that wear the famous Claret and Blue. He has built the foundations that were required, so, although we are disappointed with the lack of Barcelonic aspirations we should acknowledge that the love is back in the club and we are moving forward, so credit we
were it is due

[robleflaneur]

As a few others have said the comments about it only being 5 games in ignores that the problems are the same.

My first post on this thread:

This is why I was critical of shit performances in november, yes we were getting results but you just can't play shit week in and week out and not expect the results to start going against you.  There's maybe  something in the idea that we could've got more out of the last 3 games but in all 3 cases things have started to go shit and Bruce has sat on his hands and let it happen and then made subs once the game is gone.  So we have a manager who can't change a game once it's underway, who can't create any coherence in our attacking play, who seemingly hasn't been able to find a way to get the defence to play as a unit and who had a bit of early luck that has now completely abandoned him.  Given all of that what sliver of hope is there to cling to that we're going to be able to address this shit?

The last bit was in anger over just how shit we were at the time but everything else there could be written about almost any 10 match period under him.

And there is a constant theme from critics that
- he is unable to improve players
-he seems unable to get the best out of a good squad of players
-there is no discernible plan**
- he is tactically inept
- the above  3 points means he is reliant on moments of individual brilliance
- also means a need  for expensive additions and a failure to develop younger players,not a way to progress as a club
-he is overly negative,so teams like Ipswich and Reading get points off us.

** I think there is a plan.It's get it wide,get the cross in.It's so simplistic that even Baldrick wouldn't count it asa plan.

The above points ,I think,seem to be a summary of what many posters have said.The fact that posters are saying the same things is pretty damning and not a case of hysteria over a few points being dropped but a reflection of 2 years of Bruce.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The simple truth is that Bruce makes us less than the sum of our parts.

Nail on head. If I thought he was doing something that was not only getting us promoted but also setting to to survive our first season in the Premiership, I'd be right behind him. The fact is he's blagging it to make us at best a play-off team where he's once again thrown into a lottery.

He knows he's never going to get such a well paid job as he has at the Villa. The longer he lowers our expectations the longer he prolongs the stability of us being just one more Championship club. The new owners, just like Xia, have supported him financially but there will come a point, give it a month or two, when attendances drop, when we fail to sell out our away allocation, when fans realise kissing their arse over "what a great club", how our supporters " are their home and away in their thousands", when they realise he's a charlatan holding us back.

I can understand those fans that supported us for the first time under MON and thought everything was great and now it's not but we need to support our manager that wins more than he loses. Their support is both amazing and misguided. Do not worship false gods unless you enjoy being part of the best supported team in the Championship and you get a kick out of taking over small towns like Ipswich or Wigan. As we saw in the summer, we can throw our money around for only so much time before we have to sell, sell, sell to survive.

90 minutes from the Premiership last season? We weren't even close except our size. It wasn't just his parents that died last season; it was our ambition. He's a goner. It's just a matter of time. Bodger Bruce has been caught with his trousers down and it ain't impressive.

[Axl Rose]

The simple truth is that Bruce makes us less than the sum of our parts.

Nail on head. If I thought he was doing something that was not only getting us promoted but also setting to to survive our first season in the Premiership, I'd be right behind him. The fact is he's blagging it to make us at best a play-off team where he's once again thrown into a lottery.

He knows he's never going to get such a well paid job as he has at the Villa. The longer he lowers our expectations the longer he prolongs the stability of us being just one more Championship club. The new owners, just like Xia, have supported him financially but there will come a point, give it a month or two, when attendances drop, when we fail to sell out our away allocation, when fans realise kissing their arse over "what a great club", how our supporters " are their home and away in their thousands", when they realise he's a charlatan holding us back.

I can understand those fans that supported us for the first time under MON and thought everything was great and now it's not but we need to support our manager that wins more than he loses. Their support is both amazing and misguided. Do not worship false gods unless you enjoy being part of the best supported team in the Championship and you get a kick out of taking over small towns like Ipswich or Wigan. As we saw in the summer, we can throw our money around for only so much time before we have to sell, sell, sell to survive.

90 minutes from the Premiership last season? We weren't even close except our size. It wasn't just his parents that died last season; it was our ambition. He's a goner. It's just a matter of time. Bodger Bruce has been caught with his trousers down and it ain't impressive.

If I wasn't holding my phone, I'd give you a round of applause.

[brian green]

To go back to West Derby Villan's post, there is not the slightest trace of "return to greatness" about anything Bruce has done or is doing.  Given the resources that have been put at his disposal any manager in the four leagues with a pulse could have done what he has done.  Going right the way back to MON none of our managers has been given the latitude that Bruce has been given.  What he has done is to take Lambert's bosses arse licking of reduction of fan expectations and concreted it in place as the acceptance of second tier long term mediocrity.

[Axl Rose]

Well said, Brian.

[Rigadon]

To go back to West Derby Villan's post, there is not the slightest trace of "return to greatness" about anything Bruce has done or is doing.  Given the resources that have been put at his disposal any manager in the four leagues with a pulse could have done what he has done.  Going right the way back to MON none of our managers has been given the latitude that Bruce has been given.  What he has done is to take Lambert's bosses arse licking of reduction of fan expectations and concreted it in place as the acceptance of second tier long term mediocrity.

I think the main reason for that though, rests on the fact that each of our managers since MON has been in charge of a club in decline.  Bruce has the club on the up, just not quickly enough for most (including me).   I am starting to wonder if he can get us up automatically.  Much depends on how much more clinical our loan signings make us and whether our back 4 is strong enough.  If one of those two things falters we sill be in the play offs again and that won't be nearly good enough. 

[mr underhill]

our defense is hugely weaker than it was last season. Terry was very good most of the time he played but his influence extended way beyond his own performance. We need a left back and a centre back and for the manager to play people in their proper positions. Unless that happens we are going nowhere.

[Holy Trinity]

Rudy that is spot on!

It is time to cut the crap now from the owners pov.  Sit back and reflect as soon as the window shuts and realise we really should only have 1 win and 4 draws (Wigan Fluke winners don't happen every week) we should of and probably would of been knocked out to Yeovil had the ref not disallowed what seemed to be a perfectly good goal of theirs with the scores at 0-0 still I think it was.
We looked like losing the game from 65 mins on vs Brentford and I count myself lucky we didn't lose never mind nic another fluke late goal. (Although based on overall play we probably deserved it)
Its time for them to sit back and say ok we have a bottom half of the prem squad with wage bills to match, we have around 10 players at the club that Bruce signed that he either will not play or will not play in position.
We had such an easy start to the season we could and should be top of the league right now and it's only going to get harder. If I was playing against Bruce this season my tactics would be to double up on Jack with 2 in the middle. And let the crosses come in as they are mostly aimless as we have very little Ariel threat but I would load the box against us and teams are already. We are not beginning to be found out... We have had a 16 page pull out exposé of how to beat us.
 If we had benteke this tactic would be fine 100% but we do not have an Ariel monster on our books capable of converting our 87 over hit crosses a game into goals.
If I was the owners I would be sat back saying 3mil a year for what? I could pick a team from our squad and hope one of them does something good and that makes us win as could any one of you and that is why we are fast becoming a joke again. We have a better squad than the entire league and i really believe that but the manager is quite possibly the most tactically inept in the league. Last season automatic promotion was on the table for about 6 days of the season in reality and the rest of the time we were also rans that turned into never rans in the play if final.

Who's out there better than Bruce? I don't know really dean Smith is certainly but Brentford is his project and I wouldn't leave if I was him But Bruce simply has to go before it is to late because after September is out of the way and October come around the play offs could be our only option barring some Fulhamesque run of form.
Now I'm not going to name names here as I have no idea what wages we habe availible to us for managers and backroom staff to come in but we know we can probably afford anyone we want with these 2 in charge.

TLDR = Bruce out

[Steve67]

I think he's brought in some decent players and I'm quite excited to see what Bolasie and El Ghazi can bring to the table.  Then again, he hasn't really bothered with the defence other than bringing in a 'potential' player in Axel, who, in my view has played a significant part in the three goals we shipped in at home this week.  I like the fact that we are up in the top six and seem to win more than we lose , then again, the style of football is very negative and Bruce doesn't seem to know how to infuse the formulaic consistency that we played  in the first half against Brentford.  He talks a good game and seem to know where the problems lie, then again, he consistently goes against those issues by playing players out of position or doing the same thing again and again.  We are still raw from the defeat in the play off final, then again, what's changed? 

I was all for giving him until Christmas, basically because of the players that he has brought in and I would like to see how they get on.  That said, I have very little faith in Bruce being able to get the best out of them, concerned that Swansea, Stoke and Albion will only get better ()Yeah, I know, why worry about what hasn't happened yet?).  Then again, Bruce has never really got us playing consistently as a team.  Therefore, I wonder if Bruce has taken us as far as he can and we move on to another Manager.  Before that happens, two things; the first is, I wonder if an upgrade on Clemence as first team Coach would do the trick?  Secondly, who is that Manager?  Personally, I wonder if Moyes might be more able to get a tune out of the current squad.  I want promotion this season, rather than build for the future.  I really like Bruce as a person but as a Manager, I want change to someone head-hunted, progressive and willing to throw on a left back, only if the current left back is injured!  That was a completely twattish decision, a straw and a camel's back for me. 

[AV82EC]

The trouble is whenever the siren calls for his sacking reach a crescendo he seems to pull some results from somewhere. Last Christmas was the last time this happened, a month of bad results and we’re all worried about a trip to Boro, we get a result after playing OK and go on a seven game winning run.

I still want him gone mind, there comes a point when it’s apparent he just isn’t moving on the style of play, his ability to coach better performances is non existent, he seemingly has no clue on how to construct a squad but most importantly for me, there isn’t a solid swagger about this club in this division. I’m carrying on attending some games but my decision to pick and choose with Bruce in charge is looking like a good one.

[andyh]

Nuno at the Dogheads and Bielsa at Leeds prove that you don’t HAVE to have knowledge and experience of this division to play attractive, winning football.

[Abbeyfealeavfc]

It isn't going to happen after an unbeaten start but I want Bruce out! Very disappointed in 2 points dropped yesterday, due in main to Bruce's negativity. I cannot believe we finished the game with 5 players out of position and no striker. I'm also disappointed that calderwood, clemence or Agnew didn't have any b-llocks to tell Bruce what he was doing was wrong. Agnew came and things improved attacking wise, but as any Villa fan knows whether it be a coach or players, Bruce wears anybody down who has a hint of energy, drive or enthusiasm. That's why I'm not getting excited by any recent signings with Bruce still in charge. 3 consequetive draws is equivalent to 1 win and 2 losses points wise, so if I were Bruce I wouldn't get too excited about an unbeaten start, cause we're going nowhere with draws and the eventual actual losses that will come our way. I'm glad the new owners saw yesterday's mismanagement by bruce. Hopefully it will bring the day of his eventual departure closer.

[themossman]

Over the past few years the Bruce/warnock Ron manager types getting teams promoted with eye punishing football are the anomalies.

[Clampy]

If we've fucked over Jack Grealish's career aspirations for anything less than a wholehearted, full blooded determination to get to the Premier League this season then we should be ashamed. Jack deserves a shit load more loyalty than Bruce.

I doubt that's the case. I just saw it as the owners wanting to keep one of our best players in a effort to help us get up.