Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[paul_e]

So all these players they brought in on loan on no doubt huge wages (as well as whoever it was they signed for a lot of money)  that were coveted by the bigger clubs in Europe weren't expected to get them to the promised land. If it was consistency they wanted then surely loan signings aren't the way to achieve it?

Well of course, but the manager and board never outright stated that promotion was the only target, whereas we made it very clear that promotion was the be all and end all this season.  It was a message that came from Bruce, Wyness and Xia at various points through the summer and I seem to remember Terry and Snodgrass talking about wanting to get promotion fairly early on as well.

[Clampy]

For a  club like Wolves, promotion would be their target every season whether they publically state it or not. I'm sure Fulham were aiming for promotion as well.

[paul_e]

For a  club like Wolves, promotion would be their target every season whether they publically state it or not. I'm sure Fulham were aiming for promotion as well.

Yes but by outright stating it like we did you draw a line in the sand of what constitutes a successful season, it removes all the wiggle room.  If we don't get it the season is a failure because we made it clear that was our view 7-8 months ago.  This is why it would be very difficult for the club to keep him on and, as has been said a few times, he knows that's the case.  If we don't go up he expects to be clearing his desk within a few days.  Nuno Santos and Jokanovic won't have that expectation (although it hardly matters for the former).

[chrisw1]

For a  club like Wolves, promotion would be their target every season whether they publically state it or not. I'm sure Fulham were aiming for promotion as well.

Yes but by outright stating it like we did you draw a line in the sand of what constitutes a successful season, it removes all the wiggle room.  If we don't get it the season is a failure because we made it clear that was our view 7-8 months ago.  This is why it would be very difficult for the club to keep him on and, as has been said a few times, he knows that's the case.  If we don't go up he expects to be clearing his desk within a few days.  Nuno Santos and Jokanovic won't have that expectation (although it hardly matters for the former).

No it's not, it's all just semantics.

As I said before it's not black and white.  Whether he will or should be kept on will depend entirely on the circumstances around the end result.

An extreme example - if we had lost 10 players to injury for the fist half of the season, but then won every game since 10-0 (and missed out on promotion), he would still have failed but by your and Adams rationale he should still be sacked.

I'm not making a judgement here on whether he should or shouldn't stay, I'm just saying it isn't (or shouldn't) be as black and white as you keep suggesting.

[Clampy]

Even if we hadn't pubically stated it, it  still would have been expected.

[ChicagoLion]

Even if we hadn't pubically stated it, it  still would have been expected.

I guess assembling the most expensive championship  squad ever was a clue.

[ChicagoLion]

One reason that you could put forward for Bruce staying to fight another campaign, is that it would potentially cause less disruption to the squad.
Maybe if given the Gig for another season he would be more likely to keep more of the squad together including Grealish.
The problem is if we sack the Bruce the day after we fail in  the play offs, the players will on the-phone to thier agents and a new squad will need to be formed for the next campaign.
This comming from someone who would happily have seen him sacked since March to October last year.

[paul_e]

Absolutely, which is why I think there's no chance he keeps his job if we fail, but think of it from the boards view.  They clearly stated what the goal was, if they allow him to continue after that what message does it send?  If chris's "struggled without any players for months and then smashed everyone" scenario happened then, in that very specific, and highly unlikely, event they could save face by saying the injury crisis was beyond our control but the results with the full squad proved beyond doubt that we were in the right place but otherwise the board just looks weak and everything I know about the Chinese screams out that Xia would never accept that, it could be the end of him in business.  That's why what he said is important.

[Chris Jameson]

So all these players they brought in on loan on no doubt huge wages (as well as whoever it was they signed for a lot of money)  that were coveted by the bigger clubs in Europe weren't expected to get them to the promised land. If it was consistency they wanted then surely loan signings aren't the way to achieve it?

Well of course, but the manager and board never outright stated that promotion was the only target, whereas we made it very clear that promotion was the be all and end all this season.  It was a message that came from Bruce, Wyness and Xia at various points through the summer and I seem to remember Terry and Snodgrass talking about wanting to get promotion fairly early on as well.

You clearly take more notice of any of the noises coming out of other clubs pre season, personally I couldn’t name a single Wolves player off the top of my head but I’m fairly certain whoever their manager is and any of the players wouldn’t settle for finishing 9th or whatever. What does it matter what is stated in public? If Bruce or Snodgrass or the number 26 had said anything other than promotion imagine the uproar from a load of blokes on the internet.

[Clampy]

So all these players they brought in on loan on no doubt huge wages (as well as whoever it was they signed for a lot of money)  that were coveted by the bigger clubs in Europe weren't expected to get them to the promised land. If it was consistency they wanted then surely loan signings aren't the way to achieve it?

Well of course, but the manager and board never outright stated that promotion was the only target, whereas we made it very clear that promotion was the be all and end all this season.  It was a message that came from Bruce, Wyness and Xia at various points through the summer and I seem to remember Terry and Snodgrass talking about wanting to get promotion fairly early on as well.

You clearly take more notice of any of the noises coming out of other clubs pre season, personally I couldn’t name a single Wolves player off the top of my head but I’m fairly certain whoever their manager is and any of the players wouldn’t settle for finishing 9th or whatever. What does it matter what is stated in public? If Bruce or Snodgrass or the number 26 had said anything other than promotion imagine the uproar from a load of blokes on the internet.

This.

[purpletrousers]

Even if we hadn't pubically stated it, it  still would have been expected.

Always a risk of shafting yourself if we are that explicit.

[Drummond]

I think Drummond that it is about expectation.  In every field of life you get what you are prepared to accept.  If you stump up the money for a Jaguar you are not happy being overtaken by Reliant Robins.

Brian I agree completely. However, if that Jaguar needed all new parts, hadn't been serviced properly in years, and had lots of different drivers and driving styles to affect the engine it may take a while to get the engine purring again.

[old man villa fan]

I think Drummond that it is about expectation.  In every field of life you get what you are prepared to accept.  If you stump up the money for a Jaguar you are not happy being overtaken by Reliant Robins.

Brian I agree completely. However, if that Jaguar needed all new parts, hadn't been serviced properly in years, and had lots of different drivers and driving styles to affect the engine it may take a while to get the engine purring again.

Well, he bought all the bits, tried tuning it up but the engine keeps on spluttering.  Either he didn't identify all the bits or his tuning up is not up to scratch as he has had long enough to do the job.

Saying that, we still have a chance of going up so he might just get the tuning right in time for the big trip.

[brian green]

Yes, Drum, point taken but he was sent to the car dealer with a big, big, bag of cash.  He managed to buy a crap Jaguar.  Others with a pocketful of small change have got  old family saloons firing on all cylinders.

[CT]

Yes, Drum, point taken but he was sent to the car dealer with a big, big, bag of cash.  He managed to buy a crap Jaguar.  Others with a pocketful of small change have got  old family saloons firing on all cylinders.

Slightly left field, but a chap called Brian Green bought some Japanese martial arts stuff from us yesterday.

Surely there can't be more than one?