Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Did Wyness mention whether or not he expects to be with us next season?

[cheltenhamlion]

Did Wyness mention whether or not he expects to be with us next season?

Non committal. Nobody knows what is around the corner in football.

[Allan C]

I think the problem with Bruce is the same as it ever was. I can’t imagine many supporters think he was appointed because he will tear up the PL if we are promoted so it’s hard to get too passionate about keeping him as a long term Villa manager. However, he’s a ‘promotion specialist’ and if he fails it won’t have been by much so it feels sort of reasonable to be generous and give him another go. I think if we fail, we’ll keep him unless there is someone who looks as good a bet to get us promoted and is more likely to do well in the Prem.

He’s also a decent bloke and let’s not forget Pardew will doubtless be available soon. Hopefully the good Dr knows Villa Park will be littered with season tickets if he appointed him.

Bruce is out on his arse if we don't get promoted.

Yep. There will be no room for sentiment. Also, whoever comes in will need to work off a very different budget, won't have the luxury of getting in a bunch of high wage older players, will likely have to sell a few, and be committed to our academy to bring through new players. It will be a very different Villa which in some ways is refreshing. If Terry does stay, or if somehow we can get Snodgrass as another example they'll need to take a decent snip in pay.

I was probably not straightforward enough in my original post. My own opinion is that he was a very good manager for a team as shit as Birmingham and he is a decent bloke. I didn't want him when we appointed him because he can serve no useful purpose beyond getting us promoted. Naturally I didn't want him when the performances were poor, I still wasn't convinced when we had a good spell, I'm not convinced now and if we do manage to go up (I don't think we will), I don't think he'd be a very good Prem Manager. I was trying to give a kind of baseline objective assessment. I think if we narrowly miss out on the play offs, Tony will keep him unless he walks, which he may do because he isn't Paul Lambert.

Your two posts are excellent and reflect my thoughts almost exactly. I’ve always said Bruce is taking us backwards not forwards and nothing I’ve watched has changed that.

[Clampy]

I think the problem with Bruce is the same as it ever was. I can’t imagine many supporters think he was appointed because he will tear up the PL if we are promoted so it’s hard to get too passionate about keeping him as a long term Villa manager. However, he’s a ‘promotion specialist’ and if he fails it won’t have been by much so it feels sort of reasonable to be generous and give him another go. I think if we fail, we’ll keep him unless there is someone who looks as good a bet to get us promoted and is more likely to do well in the Prem.

He’s also a decent bloke and let’s not forget Pardew will doubtless be available soon. Hopefully the good Dr knows Villa Park will be littered with season tickets if he appointed him.

Bruce is out on his arse if we don't get promoted.

Yep. There will be no room for sentiment. Also, whoever comes in will need to work off a very different budget, won't have the luxury of getting in a bunch of high wage older players, will likely have to sell a few, and be committed to our academy to bring through new players. It will be a very different Villa which in some ways is refreshing. If Terry does stay, or if somehow we can get Snodgrass as another example they'll need to take a decent snip in pay.

I was probably not straightforward enough in my original post. My own opinion is that he was a very good manager for a team as shit as Birmingham and he is a decent bloke. I didn't want him when we appointed him because he can serve no useful purpose beyond getting us promoted. Naturally I didn't want him when the performances were poor, I still wasn't convinced when we had a good spell, I'm not convinced now and if we do manage to go up (I don't think we will), I don't think he'd be a very good Prem Manager. I was trying to give a kind of baseline objective assessment. I think if we narrowly miss out on the play offs, Tony will keep him unless he walks, which he may do because he isn't Paul Lambert.

Your two posts are excellent and reflect my thoughts almost exactly. I’ve always said Bruce is taking us backwards not forwards and nothing I’ve watched has changed that.

I'm not sure he's taking us backwards. We'd been going backwards a long time before Bruce came along.

[brian green]

I think Tony Xia's mind was made up some time ago.  I don't think failure in the play offs however narrowly will make him change his mind.  Whichever way the fickle finger of fate points we shall see a very different Villa next season.

[Clark W Griswold]

Yeah I think Xia will pull the trigger even if we lose on penalties in the final. I think if he can keep pretty much everyone here next season and have Kodjia back and fully firing it would be a shame to not stick with him for the time being. If there are serious doubts 10-12 matches in that we're going to get promoted next season, we could change it then.

[MoetVillan]

Yeah I think Xia will pull the trigger even if we lose on penalties in the final. I think if he can keep pretty much everyone here next season and have Kodjia back and fully firing it would be a shame to not stick with him for the time being. If there are serious doubts 10-12 matches in that we're going to get promoted next season, we could change it then.

10-12 matches at the start of this season is what seemingly has done for our automatic promotion places. 

[paul_e]

Yeah I think Xia will pull the trigger even if we lose on penalties in the final. I think if he can keep pretty much everyone here next season and have Kodjia back and fully firing it would be a shame to not stick with him for the time being. If there are serious doubts 10-12 matches in that we're going to get promoted next season, we could change it then.

10-12 matches at the start of this season is what seemingly has done for our automatic promotion places. 

10-12 games at the start of the season meant Bruce had an impossible job in his first season.
6-7 bad games at the start of the season is why we'll finish in the playoffs.

That said I don't really understand why we're having the discussion, if we don't go up Bruce has failed to meet the target he was set by everyone (including himself).  If he stays then it's an acceptance of that failure and if Xia accepts that this season then he's not the owner we wanted or needed.

[Richard E]

Yeah I think Xia will pull the trigger even if we lose on penalties in the final. I think if he can keep pretty much everyone here next season and have Kodjia back and fully firing it would be a shame to not stick with him for the time being. If there are serious doubts 10-12 matches in that we're going to get promoted next season, we could change it then.

10-12 matches at the start of this season is what seemingly has done for our automatic promotion places. 

10-12 games at the start of the season meant Bruce had an impossible job in his first season.
6-7 bad games at the start of the season is why we'll finish in the playoffs.

That said I don't really understand why we're having the discussion, if we don't go up Bruce has failed to meet the target he was set by everyone (including himself).  If he stays then it's an acceptance of that failure and if Xia accepts that this season then he's not the owner we wanted or needed.

Agree entirely, especially the bit I have highlighted.

[Clark W Griswold]

Personally, I've pretty much never felt that we'd go up this season although I was starting to believe finally after Wolves. Two games on and back down to earth. It's been a building job and I think post Boxing Day we have finally seen the results of that building job. We've hit a bad patch the last 2 games but I think if we have a continuation of that period into next season by keeping the manager, players as much as possible and having Kodjia back, I'm confident we'll do it next season, and I think it'll most likely be right from the off. The 10-12 game thing I mentioned shouldn't be an issue but no one can say 100% how it'll go.
If we make a load of changes again including the manager I'd be less confident of promotion next season, others may not be.

[chrisw1]

Yeah I think Xia will pull the trigger even if we lose on penalties in the final. I think if he can keep pretty much everyone here next season and have Kodjia back and fully firing it would be a shame to not stick with him for the time being. If there are serious doubts 10-12 matches in that we're going to get promoted next season, we could change it then.

10-12 matches at the start of this season is what seemingly has done for our automatic promotion places. 

10-12 games at the start of the season meant Bruce had an impossible job in his first season.
6-7 bad games at the start of the season is why we'll finish in the playoffs.

That said I don't really understand why we're having the discussion, if we don't go up Bruce has failed to meet the target he was set by everyone (including himself).  If he stays then it's an acceptance of that failure and if Xia accepts that this season then he's not the owner we wanted or needed.

Because not everything in life is black and white, that’s why Paul.

I am not 100% convinced either way myself,  but it’s perfectly conceivable that someone would look at our season as a whole and say after a very poor start and despite severe injury issues the team has improved to an extent where performances are on track and it makes sense to continue on that path.

Like I said I’m not sure myself yet and for me it would very much depend on how we finish the season.   But to say a that the club shouldn’t look at the wider picture and not the end result in isolation seems a bit daft.

[Mister E]

Because not everything in life is black and white, that’s why Paul.

I am not 100% convinced either way myself,  but it’s perfectly conceivable that someone would look at our season as a whole and say after a very poor start and despite severe injury issues the team has improved to an extent where performances are on track and it makes sense to continue on that path.

Like I said I’m not sure myself yet and for me it would very much depend on how we finish the season.   But to say a that the club shouldn’t look at the wider picture and not the end result in isolation seems a bit daft.

You're right, Chris, except for the point that if we continue in the 2nd tier next season our squad and the demands it will make on coaching and selection decisions will be very different. We will lose a number of wanted and unwanted players and not have the same budget to attract replacements; the manager and coaches will need to be able to work with a squad where there are likely to be more development needs.
The Good Doctor - and more likely Wyness and Round - will need to decide what sort of manager is required; and it may not be the current coaching team.

[preston28]

Personally, I've pretty much never felt that we'd go up this season although I was starting to believe finally after Wolves. Two games on and back down to earth. It's been a building job and I think post Boxing Day we have finally seen the results of that building job. We've hit a bad patch the last 2 games but I think if we have a continuation of that period into next season by keeping the manager, players as much as possible and having Kodjia back, I'm confident we'll do it next season, and I think it'll most likely be right from the off. The 10-12 game thing I mentioned shouldn't be an issue but no one can say 100% how it'll go.
If we make a load of changes again including the manager I'd be less confident of promotion next season, others may not be.

Personally, I've pretty much never felt that we'd go up this season although I was starting to believe finally after Wolves. Two games on and back down to earth. It's been a building job and I think post Boxing Day we have finally seen the results of that building job. We've hit a bad patch the last 2 games but I think if we have a continuation of that period into next season by keeping the manager, players as much as possible and having Kodjia back, I'm confident we'll do it next season, and I think it'll most likely be right from the off. The 10-12 game thing I mentioned shouldn't be an issue but no one can say 100% how it'll go.
If we make a load of changes again including the manager I'd be less confident of promotion next season, others may not be.

Sums up my feelings. What we desperately need is stability and we're now getting it now under Bruce. I'd be happy for him to stay irrespective of whether we get promoted or not.  Promotion would be great and what we all desire, but if we did any manager will have a job keeping us up.  Let's just enjoy the rest of this season!

[paul_e]

Clark and Chris

The problem is that the squad which got us to where we are is unsustainable, we're going to lose 7-8 players who are regulars in our matchday 18 so, like it or not, we're going to have another summer of churn.  This is what i meant by 'shit or bust' last week.  It's not that we were always going to be fucked if we missed out (as at least 1 person took it) but that we'd built a squad with a 1 year expiry date.  It may still work, and if it does none of this matters, but if it doesn't then 'we go again' isn't an option.  That's why I think Bruce will be gone within hours if we don't get promotion.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

What we desperately need is stability and we're now getting it now under Bruce. I'd be happy for him to stay irrespective of whether we get promoted or not.

Call me greedy but I'd prefer stability to come with progress otherwise what was the point of assembling the most expensive squad in the history of the Championship. I have little desire to see us as a stable club in the Championship but each to their own.