Steve Bruce - officially confirmed (as Sheffield Wednesday boss)

[Monty]

It's really not a fantastic run of results is it? The question for Tony is: is this just a product of Bruce not having his players, or them switching off because r season's over, or what have you; or, are we underperforming because Bruce is a manager whose time is now past? For me, that's a question that still can't be answered.

None of the above.

Ha, fair enough! Sport of a thousand opinions etc (including typos, apparently). What I'd say is, if Bruce isn't a problem, then what is?

[ciggiesnbeer]

I think accepting failure is how big clubs become small clubs.

If getting through another manager makes us look like a basket case trigger happy club with zero tolerance for failure I am fine with that.

Sorry but its results time. No more "build for the future" no more "long term plans". We have spent and spent on some very good players. There is no reason why they shouldn't be doing better and we need someone who can make that happen. Now.

We do not belong in the Championship. If that sounds arrogant then so be it but its also backed up by facts, like this is the most expensive squad in the history of this second rate league and yet we are STILL losing. No we shouldn't put up with it regardless of how intelligent, insightful and likeable Bruce is (and he is all three of those things imho).

It just hasn't worked out with us. Lovely guy, I wish him well but its time to change again.

[ChicagoLion]

It's really not a fantastic run of results is it? The question for Tony is: is this just a product of Bruce not having his players, or them switching off because r season's over, or what have you; or, are we underperforming because Bruce is a manager whose time is now past? For me, that's a question that still can't be answered.

None of the above.

Ha, fair enough! Sport of a thousand opinions etc (including typos, apparently). What I'd say is, if Bruce isn't a problem, then what is?

We can cite history but the current mess is down to him, reading your post again, is what you are saying I think.

[garyfouroaks]

I think accepting failure is how big clubs become small clubs.

If getting through another manager makes us look like a basket case trigger happy club with zero tolerance for failure I am fine with that.

Sorry but its results time. No more "build for the future" no more "long term plans". We have spent and spent on some very good players. There is no reason why they shouldn't be doing better and we need someone who can make that happen. Now.

We do not belong in the Championship. If that sounds arrogant then so be it but its also backed up by facts, like this is the most expensive squad in the history of this second rate league and yet we are STILL losing. No we shouldn't put up with it regardless of how intelligent, insightful and likeable Bruce is (and he is all three of those things imho).

It just hasn't worked out with us. Lovely guy, I wish him well but its time to change again.

Wrong. What makes big clubs small clubs is making the same mistake again, and again.

At some point you draw a line, and give the manager three years. that is what we should do with Bruce. There are multiple reasons why Bruce has not effected an immediate improvement, the effects of constant change being one of them.

We do belong in the Championship. Our results determine that.

Suggesting that the answer to our malaise is more change is madness.

[PeterWithesShin]

I can't help thinking what will make a big club small is having 21-22K home fans fans watching as Barnsley twat you.

[ciggiesnbeer]

I think accepting failure is how big clubs become small clubs.

If getting through another manager makes us look like a basket case trigger happy club with zero tolerance for failure I am fine with that.

Sorry but its results time. No more "build for the future" no more "long term plans". We have spent and spent on some very good players. There is no reason why they shouldn't be doing better and we need someone who can make that happen. Now.

We do not belong in the Championship. If that sounds arrogant then so be it but its also backed up by facts, like this is the most expensive squad in the history of this second rate league and yet we are STILL losing. No we shouldn't put up with it regardless of how intelligent, insightful and likeable Bruce is (and he is all three of those things imho).

It just hasn't worked out with us. Lovely guy, I wish him well but its time to change again.

Wrong. What makes big clubs small clubs is making the same mistake again, and again.

At some point you draw a line, and give the manager three years. that is what we should do with Bruce. There are multiple reasons why Bruce has not effected an immediate improvement, the effects of constant change being one of them.

We do belong in the Championship. Our results determine that.

Suggesting that the answer to our malaise is more change is madness.

So you think we should have just stuck with Sherwood then? Give him the three years?

edit: That could come across as snarky it is not intended to be. I have been on the same ride you have been and frankly my "Bruce out" is just I am desperate for this rot to end. I just dont know what distinguishes Bruce from Sherwood or Garde or RDM in terms of time. If your stance is that we should just give all our new managers more time then thats perfectly fair but I am curious what your thinking is.

[villadelph]

I can't help thinking what will make a big club small is having 21-22K home fans fans watching as Barnsley twat you.

truth.

[dave17]

I can't help thinking what will make a big club small is having 21-22K home fans fans watching as Barnsley twat you.

yup

[AV82EC]

I think accepting failure is how big clubs become small clubs.

If getting through another manager makes us look like a basket case trigger happy club with zero tolerance for failure I am fine with that.

Sorry but its results time. No more "build for the future" no more "long term plans". We have spent and spent on some very good players. There is no reason why they shouldn't be doing better and we need someone who can make that happen. Now.

We do not belong in the Championship. If that sounds arrogant then so be it but its also backed up by facts, like this is the most expensive squad in the history of this second rate league and yet we are STILL losing. No we shouldn't put up with it regardless of how intelligent, insightful and likeable Bruce is (and he is all three of those things imho).

It just hasn't worked out with us. Lovely guy, I wish him well but its time to change again.

Wrong. What makes big clubs small clubs is making the same mistake again, and again.

At some point you draw a line, and give the manager three years. that is what we should do with Bruce. There are multiple reasons why Bruce has not effected an immediate improvement, the effects of constant change being one of them.

We do belong in the Championship. Our results determine that.

Suggesting that the answer to our malaise is more change is madness.

So you think we should have just stuck with Sherwood then? Give him the three years?

edit: That could come across as snarky it is not intended to be. I have been on the same ride you have been and frankly my "Bruce out" is just I am desperate for this rot to end. I just dont know what distinguishes Bruce from Sherwood or Garde or RDM in terms of time. If your stance is that we should just give all our new managers more time then thats perfectly fair but I am curious what your thinking is.

I can't answer for GFO but I'd have thought he seems to be suggesting that ridding the club of yet another manager and coaching team is just adding fuel to the fire rather than putting it out. I absolutely accept though that others feel differently.

Unbelievably I saw enough last night to suggest that if he sticks with those tactics we'll turn this around. It's hard to stomach but at some point you can't just keep overhauling your mgmt team and squad, you have to have some constants otherwise it won't improve.

[villabear]

Just watched some of his post match comments.

"Roll our sleeves up, blah blah. Tough time at the moment, blah blah. Can't fault the support"

"We go again". 

I did think he looked a bit shocked about what's going on at the moment. He certainly doesn't look the 'new leaner ready to go Steve Bruce we saw before he took over.

There must be some underlying reason to all of this, wether it's the 'stink' of all the previous shenanigans?  I don't think as other posters have said the McCormack incident has helped but why was that allowed to happen and carry on for so long?

The constant changing of formations, tactics and personnel is all a bit scattergun to me. Pick a first 11, a formation and stick with it. Messing about every game knee jerk isn't the answer.

Paul Merson on Talksport this morning thinks one of the main problems is we've bought players from smaller teams who aren't used to playing in front of big crowds. They won't have to worry about that soon if it carries on like this.

I didn't go last night and will need some persuading to go again anytime soon. I don't think I'd ever hear myself think that.

[pbavfckuwait]

But what if those "constants' are causing more damage and however long you persevere with those constants, there are no improvements, mainly because the person in charge is incapable of improving the resources he has.

[AV82EC]

I'd suggest that we don't known if he can fix the resources. I'm willing to give him time. Ultimately that may end up in relegation. I'll have to accept I was wrong if it happens.

[pbavfckuwait]

AV each to their own, but to me he is flailling, great excuses after games, but nothing being done to change attitudes, determination, bottle whatever you want to call it, we go a goal down we lose, players looking like they have not got a clue and these are players that none of us moaned about when they came in the door.

[Mister E]

Paul Merson on Talksport this morning thinks one of the main problems is we've bought players from smaller teams who aren't used to playing in front of big crowds. They won't have to worry about that soon if it carries on like this

I don't buy that logic at all. There may be a minor effect of playing in front of a bigger crowd in a venerable old stadium but it doesn't wash for me.
The more obvious issue is that Bruce has not worked out the way in which this group of players can be most effectively deployed: how can each of these players be best utilised such that they can do what they do best?
For example, since neither Hogan nor Kodjia are strong in the air - particularly in this division where all the CB seem to be giants - the wingers / fullbacks should be encouraged to play low hard crosses into the 'zone of uncertainty'. Or, we shouldn't try and play wingers, instead pushing passes through the channels for Hogan to use his speed and Kodjia to use his body-strength.
I don't see the tactics; I don't sense the chosen game-strategies; I don't feel that there is good game-management.
I think we have some good players and a decent squad; it ain't being maximised by the current coaching staff.

Is the timing of Calderwood's arrival a coincidence?

[ozzjim]

I think the Calderwood thing is a red herring. Brighton were pretty decent before he came to us.

More i think about the more for me it comes down to bot having an identity or style that is worked on consistently on the training ground. Last night should have been a flat 4 4 2, but he tried to shoehorn in Grealish and played Kodjia left side. No need. Grealish should primarily be able to play as a left winger and be disciplined there. If he can't, bench him. Green can. At least all would know their roles in that setup. No ambiguity. And then stick to it for the next 10 games. Same team, same formation. No frills, etc...