Steve Bruce - officially confirmed (as Sheffield Wednesday boss)

[Ads]

I think you're making too much of a theory for which you have no evidence. I make it personal about Westwood often, as for some reason he more than any other drives me nuts.

But on a fundamental level, its his inability to drive the game on across 20 or 30 yards or play that purposeful ball forwards that lets him down. That's what our midfield misses attack wise and where somebody like McCormack would benefit from a player confident enough to take a man on to change angles and break up defensive lines; he's too passive.

Couple that with his physical weakness of being out muscled all too often and lacking height, he's a poor choice defensively, particularly when Chester seems more than capable enough of feeding a short ball in to the full back or midfield.

There's been momentary flashes of quality; his goal against the Bitters, his through ball for Gabby at Norwich, but he will never be anything other that dire at Villa Park and he should be moved on and out.

[Jimbo]

I've seen Alan Wright jump for more headers in one match than Westwood has in his entire Villa career.  And as much as Wright frustrated the hell out of me, he never, ever went missing or pretended his way through a game like Westwood does. I can forgive shit players, but Westwood is a coward who makes Stewart Downing look like Hercules.   

[chrisw1]

I've had the misfortune to watch Westwood for the best part of five years. I know exactly what he's about.

So you're privy to how hard he trains?  His fitness stats?  The mileage he covers on the pitch?

As I said, he may not be good enough but your inference is that he's lazy and I just don't see that.  Your earlier suggestion is there is some special aura at the club that makes players want to be fat lazy and shit.  Come on, get a grip.

If I'm talking shite, you're definitely thinking shite. I didn't say he was lazy, I said he was a hoodwinker. They are two different things. I agree he isn't good enough. You got that bit correct. I think he tries to hide his shortcomings by running around a lot and making it look like he's doing something. But he really does do very little. Some things - like tackling, passing forwards, heading, etc. he won't even try. He'll make it look like he's trying them, though. More out of covering up his inadequacies, rather than laziness. But by doing that, he's hoodwinking. 

Westwood, very early in his career, decided that he was the type of midfielder that people don't really notice, one that moves the ball on to other players. But the job requires so much more than that. If I were a postman, and I decided I'd be the type of postman nobody notices, the type who moves the letters on to other postmen, the type that would rather not get involved in the sorting, walking, climbing of steps, carrying of lots of parcels and letters, I'd be given the - wait for it - sack.

FFS - no he didn't.  Why not give up second guessing what players are thinking and what mystical bubble sits over the club and just analyse the problems in a sensible manner? 

We had a shit owner who hired shit managers and bought shit players.  Because of this the team and staff were desperately low on confidence and that carried on to this season. 

It's go nothing to do with the club being a creche designed to make players fat or players being shit out of spite for the club, clocking off at 5.00pm, postmen or magical fucking bubbles.

Hopefully Bruce will sort it out, but he's not going to be bringing in a priest to exorcise any demons or any other mystical bollocks that you refer to.

[paul_e]

That's nonsense Jimbo and your letting your dislike of him take over.

Until this season he's always tried to be involved, make himself available for the pass, get himself in the way of shots and put tackles in (but stay on his feet) yes he pointed a bit too often and he was n't that great but he wasn't pretending, he was doing his best and just wasn't quite up to the standard he needed to be (other than in a couple of spells where the team were full of confidence).  He was always up therewith more touches than pretty much anyone else in the team and more completed passes than most. I honestly don't care if you agree with this or not, the stats are all available and show this fairly clearly.  Before you discredit stats, I'm not saying they make him a good player, I'm saying that they show he wasn't some faker running around not really doing anything.

This season is different, he's not making himself available, he's not getting on the ball and keeping things moving again the stats show that he's played a little over half the number of passes per game that he averaged in the 4 previous seasons, so tyhe stats again show that something is different.  I firmly believe that difference is that he's actually started paying attention to the crowd/fans slagging him off and it's destroyed the wafer thin confidence he had in his own ability.  I want him to move on because we're at the point now where no one benefits from him still being with us but to try to dismiss his entire time with us as him hoodwinking the club is just wrong.

[Jimbo]

"I see myself as a Michael Carrick-type of player, someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates."

Ashley Westwood, 2012.

[Clampy]

"I see myself as a Michael Carrick-type of player, someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates."

Ashley Westwood, 2012.

He's modelling himself on another player. It doesn't make him a hoodwinker.

[chrisw1]

"I see myself as a Michael Carrick-type of player, someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates."

Ashley Westwood, 2012.

Do you think Carrick, who has clocked up 300 appearances for Man United, winning the premier league 5 times, FA cup, League Cup and Champions league is a hoodwinker?  Or maybe the type of player we could have used over the last few years?  I'm not saying Westwood is anywhere near what Carrick is, but modelling himself on that type of player is no bad thing.

[Jimbo]

"I see myself as a Michael Carrick-type of player, someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates."

Ashley Westwood, 2012.

He's modelling himself on another player. It doesn't make him a hoodwinker.

Except Michael Carrick gets involved with all the things Bartleby Westwood would rather not do.

[Jimbo]

"I see myself as a Michael Carrick-type of player, someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates."

Ashley Westwood, 2012.

Do you think Carrick, who has clocked up 300 appearances for Man United, winning the premier league 5 times, FA cup, League Cup and Champions league is a hoodwinker?  Or maybe the type of player we could have used over the last few years?  I'm not saying Westwood is anywhere near what Carrick is, but modelling himself on that type of player is no bad thing.

You said I'd somehow 'second guessed' what Westwood was thinking when I said what kind of player he'd decided he was. I provided a quote from Westwood himself.

The Carrick bit is laughable, but irrelevant here. It's the 'stays out of the limelight' bit that I'm more interested in. On that point, he's as good as his word.

[themossman]

That's a wilful misreading of the quote though. We all know what he means - a non nonsense midfielder that doesn't do the attractive attacking stuff that grabs headlines but contributes in other ways. Carrick is one but he could easily have said the same thing about a variety of defensive/continuity midfielders.

You can criticise him on the basis he is not very good at that job, but to suggest staying out of the limelight means hiding on the pitch is ridiculous.

[Simon Page]

Except Michael Carrick gets involved with all the things Bartleby Westwood would rather not do.

It's the use of the word Bartleby where you fall down. Westwood doesn't say "I'd prefer not to" do the job we need him to do. In fact, he's the polar opposite as every manager and coach he's worked with will tell you. It's the thing I've never grasped about the vitriol towards Westwood. He's not proved himself up to the task we want and need from him. Isn't that enough? Why the need to make out he's conning us, or lazy, or feckless, or refusing to be better, or any of the other things lobbed at him by various and numerous critics?

I think the Carrick example is a good one because there's a player who was always thought of as not good enough for Manchester United and England, told he couldn't do the job he was meant to do, derided in comparison with the player he was meant to replace, yet utterly trusted and respected by teammates and coaches alike. The differences are Carrick is a better player than Westwood but he was also allowed to develop at a club doing well and with much better players around him. If you'd have seen him at Blues early in his career he looked like a little boy lost, devoid of confidence and scared of his own shadow. Amazing what can happen to a player with good management, good players around him and good vibes at the club.

Don't get me wrong, it would be best for everyone - not least the player himself - if Westwood moved on, but someone who hides, shirks responsibility and has Bartlebyesque qualities? Not even close.

[Risso]

I don't understand the defense of Westwood, and in my opinion Jimbo is spot on in his summing up of him.  He's an utterly anonymous little coward who actively goes out of his way to avoid getting involved.

[Jimbo]

I wonder why Bruce had to bring him off at half time against Cardiff? Could it be that he wasn't doing what he'd been asked to do? That's certainly how it sounded in the post-match interview.

We've been watching Westwood's anonymous appearances for years now, and I think deep down we all know there are plenty of things he can't do, and far too many things he won't even try.

Where the Bartleby comparison falls down is Bartleby openly admitted he wasn't going to take part.

[Axl Rose]

I don't understand the defense of Westwood, and in my opinion Jimbo is spot on in his summing up of him.  He's an utterly anonymous little coward who actively goes out of his way to avoid getting involved.

I couldn't put it any better myself. After the weekend, and the stats thrown around, I will no longer take anyone defending him seriously. Out.

[old man villa fan]

I get what Jimbo is trying to say and trying to come up with a plausible reason why Westwood is playing like he is.

I have been one of Westwood's critics for quite a long time but, unlike others, I do not belief he has always been a poor player.  He has over the last couple seasons got worse though, or appear worse.  Could it be that he is playing with poorer players now and he is expected to 'make things happen' which is not his game and this was covered up by players such as Delph.  However, I think that is a motivation/confidence issue.  Jimbo looked at the motivation side and expanded on a reason why this could be by comparing it with other players that by coincidence have gone the same way, coming to the conclusion that the club is an easy ride for players.

In a team game it is quite easy to hide and this is what I believe Westwood is doing.  He may not be meaning to do it or even realise he is doing it but in a position that should be in the thick of it, you cannot hide.  Why has he become 'Mr Pointy' to many?  He looks as though he is trying to close down space but somebody like Carrick gets to the position where the play ends up by reading of the game.  Westwood does not have this ability and therefore has to make up for it by 100% effort, which unfortunately he is way short of.

The are players with far worse attitudes to Westwood (Hutton and Gardner, likewise) that deserve the wrath of the supporters but we are still ending up with poorly performing players.  There have been too many players that have steadily got worse, the longer they have been here.  Jimbo thinks it is down to laziness and the 'gravy train', whereas others may think it is down to poor managers/coaches or it could be due to bad influences.