Tony's Tweets

[Damo70]

Weren't we already tumbling down the table and in massive debt by the time Ellis returned?

I thought we finished mid table the year after winning the league?

Also, to be a bit pedantic, Ellis was back with us when we won the Supercup.

One thing I know for sure. In my 40 years of supporting Villa we have never been thought of of more irrelevant and worthy of nationwide ridicule than we have in the last few years.

I'll hold my hand up and say I wanted Doug to move over years before he did. I thought, like most on here, that the next person would come along and prove how easy it is to get our club back to the very top, especially with having money.

I'm man enough to admit I was wrong. It's not easy, and it never was. But, good god, Lerner really made a complete fuck up of it.

In hindsight I enjoyed the Ellis years a damn site more than I did the Lerner years. I'm not going to pretend I didn't, just because it offends those who continue to hate Ellis with a passion.

We finished tenth the season after winning the league but we did have a minor consolation trophy at the end of it. We were in no more debt than any other club, despite what Doug likes to say, and were sixth in the season he took over. We were relegated four years after that.

I'm not offended, I don't particularly hate Ellis, but I don't see why he should now be beyond criticism just because his successor left us in as bad a shape as Ellis took us to.

That's fine. As long as the same goes for Lerner.

Having been an avid reader of this forum for the last few years, I'm not sure it does. From some people at least.

Exactly.
And let's not forget that Ellis didn't relegate us with one of the worst teams ever seen in the top division of English football either, and didn't leave us with a skeleton of of a club like Lerner did. He has put this club back years and turned us into a genuine laughing stock. There's no comparison between the two in my opinion.

Hang on do you not remember the last season with Ellis where we were well on the route to where we are now.

I do remember that last season with Ellis where we did appear to be well on route to where we are now. I also remember 1982-1987 where he did take us to where we are now. I dread to think what would have happened if SGT hadn't fancied the job.

[kipeye]

I have just read the last half-dozen pages of this thread, I will never get that time back again.

[Villa75]

We were in debt. Very considerable for the time, before big money could quickly be made.

The rest of it is a very one sided opinion based on the views of people who are only interested in that one particular side.

Ellis was a man who made mistakes, whilst still making us competitive, with very little money.

Lerner had shite loads of money, won nothing, and broke about every negative record in our near 150 year history.

I'm well aware of your views on Ellis, Dave, and I agree on some of them.

What I'm less sure of are your views on Lerner, despite years of reading this forum. Now those views I would be really interested in, as they would be new to me.

Perhaps I'll see you in the Lerner thread, if I can find it.😉

Here's a question for you who made money out of villa Ellis or Lerner?

The good business man.

On what planet is a man who sold all his club's best players unnecessarily, replaced them with poorer ones and hence got relegated, a "good businessman"?

You need to go and look up " businessman ".

He took us down, got is back up, won some cups, and then sold us for tens of millions.

Lerner only managed 1 out of those 4.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Well at least you're not patronising.

[Villa75]

Well at least you're not patronising.

And at least you're not delicate.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

You're.

[Villa75]

I have just read the last half-dozen pages of this thread, I will never get that time back again.

Come on. You enjoyed it really. 😉

[paul_e]

A decent businessman would've seen that the premier league was going to be a cash cow and, given where we were when it was formed, made sure we stayed near the top end but every time we needed a couple of key signings to push us forward he either fucked them up or baulked at the cost.

You do have to keep on top of the finances, Leeds showed the risks of not doing so but going completely the other way and missing out on players (Robbie Keane for example) for want of a few hundred thousand was just as wrong and the wheels had clearly come off when Lerner arrived.  What happened then shouldn't allow Ellis to get away with how poorly he managed the club in the first 15 years of the sky era.

By the time Lerner arrived we were probably the only club that had been a mainstay in the premier league that was still run like a division 1 club.  Lerner made a mess of trying to fix that but at least he tried to turn us into a modern club.

[Villa75]

The Premier League was more of a cash cow during Lerner's time than Ellis', and look where we are.

Ellis managed to get us back to the top division first time of trying in the 1980's, with very little money. Let's see how long it takes us without him, and with lots of money.

[Villa75]

Anyway, we are going around in circles. But at least it's getting my post count up!

How many do I need to progress from 'Parks player'?😉

[Ads]

Ellis managed to ensure we were an also ran by not getting what the Premier League was at a time that Edwards and co. elsewhere did. Look at Chelsea for fecks sake, even before Abramovich.

When we came 2nd to Man Yanited we'd more or less got the exact same trophy haul, had a bigger ground (albeit nowhere near the support) yet they got what the league was. We were beans on toast in an ever more Michelin starred world, to paraphrase Bates.

[Villa75]

Others teams actually won the Premiership, look at Blackburn, and are nowhere near the level of Man Utd, or even us.

You make it around so simple. Ignoring the fact that Man Utd along with the London clubs, have many advantages that we will never have. Media backing for one.

Ellis proved how hard it was, by selling to the multi millionaire who then managed to show the world how not to do it.

We invested an awful lot in Lerner dethroning 'The Antichrist'. It was a disaster. Surely we don't have to pretend it wasn't, just so we can keep bashing Ellis as 'the worst of all time'.

Having been a fan since the 70's, I know which I enjoyed the least. It was the last few years of Lerner.

[Villa75]

Yay! I'm a 'trialist'!

[paul_e]

Lerner saw what the problems were but made a mess of trying to fix them, Ellis didn't even think they were problems.  Both of them were shit but Ellis missed the bus whereas Lerner just couldn't catch up to it.

[Risso]

Others teams actually won the Premiership, look at Blackburn, and are nowhere near the level of Man Utd, or even us.

You make it around so simple. Ignoring the fact that Man Utd along with the London clubs, have many advantages that we will never have. Media backing for one.

Ellis proved how hard it was, by selling to the multi millionaire who then managed to show the world how not to do it.

We invested an awful lot in Lerner dethroning 'The Antichrist'. It was a disaster. Surely we don't have to pretend it wasn't, just so we can keep bashing Ellis as 'the worst of all time'.

Having been a fan since the 70's, I know which I enjoyed the least. It was the last few years of Lerner.

Blackburn were lucky in that they had a relatively rich owner for a short period when you could still buy the best player in the league for £5m. The rapidly ballooning TV deals and influx of much richer foreign owners soon made that level of wealth not much of an advantage.