Ray Wilkins on Talk Sport

[Monty]

A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.

Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.

yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.

It would have also helped if the good old English players weren't so absolutely shit and fucking half-arsed.

[brian green]

And fucking malevolent to boot.

[Dave]

A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.

Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.

yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.

How then can an Italian manager inherit an already multi-lingual squad, add players from Austria, Japan, France, Switzerland and Tunisia and make the team better?

Surely all the those non English-speaking players mean that Leicester should have imploded?

[Dante Lavelli]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.

[Villa in Denmark]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding. what it really means

[Dante Lavelli]

If you're not going to let your manager pick all his own signings, you at the very least need to identify players that suit his style.

I agree with that generally, but sherwood changed formation/tactics every 45 minutes so whatever player bought would have been either in/out depending on his mood.  So waste was inevitable regardless of who identified the players.

[Dante Lavelli]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding. what it really means

Okay, my understanding is from that baseball film where they use statistic to identify players who have specific key attributes but are largely undervalued.  I'm not sure how what we did could be described as money ball, however I'm no expert on the subject.

Arguably Liverpool may have used it with carroll and downing, but they paid top dollar for them (which mentally crippled the players) so they only used half the system.

[Dave]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding. what it really means

Okay, my understanding is from that baseball film where they use statistic to identify players who have specific key attributes but are largely undervalued.  I'm not sure how what we did could be described as money ball, however I'm no expert on the subject.

Some people have taken Moneyball to mean "before you sign a player, you look at statistics about them (like how many goals they score) first".

These people are wrong.

[The Edge]

A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.

Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.

yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.

How then can an Italian manager inherit an already multi-lingual squad, add players from Austria, Japan, France, Switzerland and Tunisia and make the team better?

Surely all the those non English-speaking players mean that Leicester should have imploded?

I said in a previous post that if done right maybe it can work. Like Leicester have shown. Our attempt at it was a bit of a fuck up don't you think?

[john e]

I've seen the film but I couldn't really explain exactly what it's all about as its applicable to baseball  which is probably more suited to it than association football

[The Edge]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.

Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.

[Monty]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.

Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.

The manager was a mug and the players brought in by Reilly happen to be a lot better than the useless, feckless Brits favoured by Sherwood.

Why do you hate thinking so much, TE?

[Villa in Denmark]

Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.

can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to.  I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.

Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.

So basically, not a clue.

Moneyball can't be used in football, the way it was used in baseball.
 Every fielding position is a niche position with stats coming out of your eyeballs and you can, theoretically, plug holes in your team by picking up someone cheaply, with the skills that have been pointed out by the stats analysis, who's just competent enough at the other aspects of the game to make an overall improvement, but who's been overlooked by everyone else.
It also requires analysis of far less data than in football, as despite baseball seemingly having stats on everything down to how often Shorty Long pisses himself in the 3rd innings, it's a much shorter list of players that they're looking at.

What you're getting wound up about is statistical sorting of players to give a manager a short list of potential targets.
It may well that Sherwood hadn't seen any of the foreign recruits in the flesh, but when would have been appropriate to do a scouting tour of Europe under his short term in the hot seat?

It's quite simple.

Sherwood says I need a left footed centre back, good in the air, decent turn of pace.
I've £X million to spend.
Stats people go through their databases and records and turn up 5 or 6 possible candidates.
Sherwood looks at the list and says, "f##k that, I'm going with Lescott. I know what I'm getting with him."

[aj2k77]

''Moneyball'' stats would say Idrissa Gueye is a fantastic midfielder. My eyes and brain tell me otherwise.

[SheffieldVillain]

''Moneyball'' stats would say Idrissa Gueye is a fantastic midfielder. My eyes and brain tell me otherwise.

I think Gueye is a decent player.

He's one of those that when he goes elsewhere next season will look a lot better.