Relegated

[KevinGage]

At the moment the only 2 things that Aston Villa F.C have got that are any good are villa park and the fans. Next season we will still have Villa park and the fans so I will take that as my positive at this moment in time.

I love Villa Park but even that's being left behind what with all these new stadiums going up.

Give me Villa Park than a soulless plastic new stadium anyday.

With three of our stands only dating back to the nineties to noughties (and our oldest one only going back to the 70s)  Villa Park is pretty plastic now anyway.

The remoddled Holte isn't much different to the bog standard two tier structures at Palace, West Ham, Norwich and elsewhere.  But bulldozing the old Trinity for the current shed was the biggest waste. 16 years on, I can say with absolute certainty that it was a price not worth paying. We became a lot less special when we lost that link to our past.

 If we had to extend, there was ample space at the North Stand for new designers to get creative.  Or bulldoze the Doug Ellis and start again.

[brian green]

The designs for expansion to the north and saving the old Trinity were already prepared Kevin.

[hipkiss92]

At the moment the only 2 things that Aston Villa F.C have got that are any good are villa park and the fans. Next season we will still have Villa park and the fans so I will take that as my positive at this moment in time.

I love Villa Park but even that's being left behind what with all these new stadiums going up.

Give me Villa Park than a soulless plastic new stadium anyday.

With three of our stands only dating back to the nineties to noughties (and our oldest one only going back to the 70s)  Villa Park is pretty plastic now anyway.

The remoddled Holte isn't much different to the bog standard two tier structures at Palace, West Ham, Norwich and elsewhere.  But bulldozing the old Trinity for the current shed was the biggest waste. 16 years on, I can say with absolute certainty that it was a price not worth paying. We became a lot less special when we lost that link to our past.

 If we had to extend, there was ample space at the North Stand for new designers to get creative.  Or bulldoze the Doug Ellis and start again.

The two-tier structure at Norwich is more akin to Walsall than ourselves. Wasn't the Holte the largest free-standing behind the goal stand in Europe at one point?

And there's nothing plastic about the exterior of the Holte either.

[Steve R]

Villa Park has held us back as a Premier League club, just as Goodison has held Everton back. However, as a second tier club we are probably better off not having a breathtaking stadium.

By the time we get back up, ridiculous TV money will have eroded the advantages a well appointed Stadium can offer. So maybe the Ansell principle has finally delivered.

How has it held us back? What a strange post.

(and others)

It isn't just numbers, it is quality of accommodation. Villa Park has been a limiting factor in both. In the 90's when we had a good team and match income was easily the biggest part of turnover we had a 39,000 capacity stadium that had more obstructed views than any other top flight ground and little more than a modicum of premium seating.

Our average gate with a successful team was only a few thousand more than the average 35 years previously when we were in the Third Division, and they haven't moved much since. Very much against the trend within the top flight and the ground has played a significant part in that.

[luke95]

At the moment the only 2 things that Aston Villa F.C have got that are any good are villa park and the fans. Next season we will still have Villa park and the fans so I will take that as my positive at this moment in time.

I love Villa Park but even that's being left behind what with all these new stadiums going up.

They'll never compare.

The walk up under the bridge, Burger vans, Aston Park on your left, the Holte Pub comes in to sight, behind it the Holte End and it's steps rising. It's changed a bit down the years but not beyond recognition and it's a walk you've done hundreds of times. Inside the ground, it still has character. It's not an oval named after a mega corp. It's not in the middle of nowhere next to toys r us. You can't nip for a frankie and benni's over the road afterwards. It's a football ground, in the middle of a community the way football was, not a tourist attraction set apart or on a retail park like just another ''business''.

You can't leave behind a ground like Villa Park.

Got to agree with that .
There's no better walk up to any football ground than Villa Park coming from Lichfield Rd.
Magnificent!

[Billy Walker]

Just a reply to TOMD2103, who asked:

"Even when we've been doing well, we've very rarely sold out Villa Park, so what good would expanding to 50,000+ do?"


Historically our crowds have always been as big as Spurs and Man City.  The question we need to ask is how, all of a sudden, are they looking to build (or move into for free) 55/60K stadia whilst we are not?  I would argue the other two clubs have people running their clubs who have ambition, vision, drive and an understanding of competitive football.  They have top notch marketing people constantly engaging with fans and potential fans; they understand the football industry.

[Billy Walker]

At the moment the only 2 things that Aston Villa F.C have got that are any good are villa park and the fans. Next season we will still have Villa park and the fans so I will take that as my positive at this moment in time.

I love Villa Park but even that's being left behind what with all these new stadiums going up.

Give me Villa Park than a soulless plastic new stadium anyday.

I agree. What we should have done was upgrade the stadium in the early days of Lerner's reign when there was a feel-good factor at the club. The North Stand should have been rebuilt and we might have attracted even more fans.

Exactly right - and Lerner might even have found that such investment would have made Villa more attractive to sell on at a later date. 

[four fornicholl]

At the moment the only 2 things that Aston Villa F.C have got that are any good are villa park and the fans. Next season we will still have Villa park and the fans so I will take that as my positive at this moment in time.

I love Villa Park but even that's being left behind what with all these new stadiums going up.

They'll never compare.

The walk up under the bridge, Burger vans, Aston Park on your left, the Holte Pub comes in to sight, behind it the Holte End and it's steps rising. It's changed a bit down the years but not beyond recognition and it's a walk you've done hundreds of times. Inside the ground, it still has character. It's not an oval named after a mega corp. It's not in the middle of nowhere next to toys r us. You can't nip for a frankie and benni's over the road afterwards. It's a football ground, in the middle of a community the way football was, not a tourist attraction set apart or on a retail park like just another ''business''.

You can't leave behind a ground like Villa Park.

Got to agree with that .
There's no better walk up to any football ground than Villa Park coming from Lichfield Rd.
Magnificent!

Agree totally,but the walk away has been pretty shitty for a while now though

[aj2k77]

Something I'd add that I think gets looked over is style.

Spurs and Man City have both signed players with a bit of skill, put bums on seats, entertainers, they're generally thought of as attractive sides, not just now but for a while.

We're seen as dour. We sign hard working English players like Milner or your Heskey. There's very few times I can think of when we've signed what are universally considered attractive players who people want to watch. How many new fans do we pick up when we are doing well? Very few I'd say, maybe something to do with the players we sign and the football we've played?

[Billy Walker]

Villa Park has held us back as a Premier League club, just as Goodison has held Everton back. However, as a second tier club we are probably better off not having a breathtaking stadium.

By the time we get back up, ridiculous TV money will have eroded the advantages a well appointed Stadium can offer. So maybe the Ansell principle has finally delivered.

How has it held us back? What a strange post.

(and others)

It isn't just numbers, it is quality of accommodation. Villa Park has been a limiting factor in both. In the 90's when we had a good team and match income was easily the biggest part of turnover we had a 39,000 capacity stadium that had more obstructed views than any other top flight ground and little more than a modicum of premium seating.

Our average gate with a successful team was only a few thousand more than the average 35 years previously when we were in the Third Division, and they haven't moved much since. Very much against the trend within the top flight and the ground has played a significant part in that.

Doug Ellis and Randy Lerner's diabolical custodianships have played the main part in curtailing attendance growth.  Give the people hope, belief  and ambition and they will fill Villa Park.  Apathy, penny-pinching and hollow statements of false ambition will keep people away.  Villa fans have never been mugs.

[dave.woodhall]

The number of obstructed view seats was massively reduced when the old Trinity went.

[KevinGage]

At the moment the only 2 things that Aston Villa F.C have got that are any good are villa park and the fans. Next season we will still have Villa park and the fans so I will take that as my positive at this moment in time.

I love Villa Park but even that's being left behind what with all these new stadiums going up.

Give me Villa Park than a soulless plastic new stadium anyday.

With three of our stands only dating back to the nineties to noughties (and our oldest one only going back to the 70s)  Villa Park is pretty plastic now anyway.

The remoddled Holte isn't much different to the bog standard two tier structures at Palace, West Ham, Norwich and elsewhere.  But bulldozing the old Trinity for the current shed was the biggest waste. 16 years on, I can say with absolute certainty that it was a price not worth paying. We became a lot less special when we lost that link to our past.

 If we had to extend, there was ample space at the North Stand for new designers to get creative.  Or bulldoze the Doug Ellis and start again.

The two-tier structure at Norwich is more akin to Walsall than ourselves. Wasn't the Holte the largest free-standing behind the goal stand in Europe at one point?

And there's nothing plastic about the exterior of the Holte either.

On it's own, it is not a terrible stand.  And it has more facilities than the old Holte, granted (not hard).

But the old Holte was a far more imposing structure.  We used to get more people behind the goal than some sides managed for a whole attendance.

I look at Dortmund's Sudtribune and can't help feeling that we should have been aiming for something closer to that.

And the frontage of the New Holte has always looked like a poor imitation of the old Trinity, for me. Though some of Lerner's improvements have, er improved it.

[ciggiesnbeer]

It looked a class above though. Even if it was getting a bit ratty.

[Richard E]

I'd like the corners filled in and the roofs connected.

[four fornicholl]

I'd like the corners filled in and the roofs connected.

I can think of several things at VP that need filling in