The Long Awaited Accounts....

[PeterWithesShin]

9 of the starting 11 against Fulham were signed after relegation, as were the 3 subs.

[Brassneck]

9 of the starting 11 against Fulham were signed after relegation, as were the 3 subs.

I was excluding loans

[PeterWithesShin]

9 of the starting 11 against Fulham were signed after relegation, as were the 3 subs.

I was excluding loans

And yet you were talking about how we got it wrong before SJM and loan signing Mings.

[Brassneck]

9 of the starting 11 against Fulham were signed after relegation, as were the 3 subs.

I was excluding loans

And yet you were talking about how we got it wrong before SJM and loan signing Mings.

What exactly is your point rain man?

Of course we got it wrong - Hence our failure to even breach top 6 for the majority of the preceding 2 years.

All those signings and we had to resort to loans plus players who were already there.

[PeterWithesShin]

So loans count when it suits you. But the 4 loans against Derby don't.

[Brassneck]

So loans count when it suits you. But the 4 loans against Derby don't.

It's nothing to do with suiting me - I've no interest in your pedantic little squabbles.

However, I am interested in AVFC and expressed a concern that we are in a vicious circle.  Somehow you've twisted that into a silly argument about whether we were good enough for the Championship - The point all along being that it is extremely difficult to sign players in the Championship that can step up to the PL when promoted - Mings & SJM being the exceptions.

[cdbearsfan]

I imagine pretty much every team that goes up has players on loan. Even looking at this season's likely promotees, WBA have five on loan and DL have seven.

While other clubs take advantage of the loan system, you'd be mad not to.

[Brassneck]

I imagine pretty much every team that goes up has players on loan. Even looking at this season's likely promotees, WBA have five on loan and DL have seven.

While other clubs take advantage of the loan system, you'd be mad not to.

I agree

And to take it further (at the risk of repeating myself), I'd also consider loaning players upon our return to the PL.

[SoccerHQ]

If we go down then we will be absolutely fine and in a position to keep most the squad together.
Notable big money exits of Jack,McGinn and maybe Mings would be circa £150m.

This value on-top of our enhanced parachute payment allowance would mean we could retain rest of the squad. All new signings have wage % drop upon relegation.

If worst happened and we lost those players then one player i could see us bringing in would be Eze (to replace Jack)

My problem is that if and when we got back up, we'd be in a worse position than this time around as we'd be minus our only 3 PL quality players.

We could be in a vicious circle here.

We signed 2 of those mentioned when we were in the championship. No-one thought of them as PL players at the time. One was from hibs and one a bournemouth reserve. Your vicious circle would assume that no signing we made was of the same quality and no youth team player came through. Mings and McGinn are very good players but were not of a level when signed that would be impossible to imagine signing again in the championship.

SJM was a one off.  Mings was already a PL player, there were just questions on whether he could sustain a run of games.  Look at how many we got wrong before those 2 came along.

We did get some wrong, but we did get some right too, but just didn’t give them long enough to develop. Ayew and Traore spring to mind.

Agree Gana as well of course.  However, I meant getting so many wrong in the Championship before landing SJM & Mings.  I think it was highlighted in the Fulham play off final where hardly any of the signings made in the previous 4 windows started the game for us.

I can't say I'm over confident that Suso would fare any better.

I actually only think we messed up with Hogan (not scouted properly to see if he could actually play in SB's style) McCormack (good scoring record but way overpaid for someone close to 30 with off field issues) and you can also debate Lansbury who is on too high wages for his minimal contributition.

That said Hourihane has been a good success who we signed in the same window and likes of Chester, Jedinak, Whelan, Kodj, Adomah all player supporting parts in the promotion.

Think Kodj would've done o.k in the premier league had we somehow got up in his first season but the two bad injuries did for him and he wasn't that effective in championship.

I imagine it will be the same strategy again, signing some of the better players at championship level but would make sure they're not that close to 30 so they have scope to step up to premier league.

I've been sceptical about him in the past but think time is right to sign Joe Lolley if we go down. Can take over the Grealish mantel and he's more than proven at championship level now and would chip in with double figures out wide. Eze at QPR is a very good player who I'd target if we stay up or not.

[SoccerHQ]

I imagine pretty much every team that goes up has players on loan. Even looking at this season's likely promotees, WBA have five on loan and DL have seven.

While other clubs take advantage of the loan system, you'd be mad not to.

When you look at it so much went against us in signing Tammy permanently. Chelsea actually getting a transfer ban, Juventus coming in for Sarri (I assume he would have stayed otherwise given they made the CL) and then Lampard being the first manager in the Abramovich era to be given a remit to give their academy prospects full minutes in premier league.

If say we'd signed him on loan in 17/18 and he'd got us up we'd have signed him that summer for 25m. We were just very unlucky.  Would easily have another five points on the board if he'd come in instead of Wesley who was obviously the back up plan.

Seems odd the feeling from some is we shouldn't bother just because we couldn't sign Abraham permanently, that was just a rare set of events.

[in exile]

9 of the starting 11 against Fulham were signed after relegation, as were the 3 subs.

I was excluding loans

And yet you were talking about how we got it wrong before SJM and loan signing Mings.

What exactly is your point rain man?

Of course we got it wrong - Hence our failure to even breach top 6 for the majority of the preceding 2 years.

All those signings and we had to resort to loans plus players who were already there.

That's pretty fucking low and totally uncalled for in my opinion

[dave.woodhall]

9 of the starting 11 against Fulham were signed after relegation, as were the 3 subs.

I was excluding loans

And yet you were talking about how we got it wrong before SJM and loan signing Mings.

What exactly is your point rain man?

Of course we got it wrong - Hence our failure to even breach top 6 for the majority of the preceding 2 years.

All those signings and we had to resort to loans plus players who were already there.

That's pretty fucking low and totally uncalled for in my opinion

I agree. Behave.

[Drummond]

It's not low, it's fucking offensive.

[Drummond]

And discriminatory.

[ChicagoLion]

Yeh like being called chicken.