Matt Lowton in The Times

[Chris Jameson]

Genuine question, how many times has Villa Park been a sell out in the last 20 years?

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They've got a richer history, with bigger support and haven't spent the past twenty years bobbing around the 2nd and 3rd division. I quite like Sunderland, but I'm not really interested in making a case for how big they are.

My original point was that few clubs as big as us have dropped lately. I don't think it's relevant to say Wigan haven't come back when they were always a  3rd division outfit masquerading in the top flight. The only recent realistic comparison would be Newcastle for scale and infrastructure, even if they parade new players instead of trophies. They were and still are a basket case, yet without a twenty goal striker, they breezed the league with the same spineless players who laid down in the road and died the season before.

[Chris Harte]

Genuine question, how many times has Villa Park been a sell out in the last 20 years?

I can't give you an exact figure, but in the days of Little and Gregory we were getting regular gates of 39339 (VPs capacity at the time).

[PeterWithesShin]

Either history counts or it doesn't. Sunderland spent 30 years bouncing between 3 divisions and their support was shit. Between 81 and 96 they averaged 20K once.

[supertom]

They've got a richer history, with bigger support and haven't spent the past twenty years bobbing around the 2nd and 3rd division. I quite like Sunderland, but I'm not really interested in making a case for how big they are.

My original point was that few clubs as big as us have dropped lately. I don't think it's relevant to say Wigan haven't come back when they were always a  3rd division outfit masquerading in the top flight. The only recent realistic comparison would be Newcastle for scale and infrastructure, even if they parade new players instead of trophies. They were and still are a basket case, yet without a twenty goal striker, they breezed the league with the same spineless players who laid down in the road and died the season before.

I think Newcastle were fortunate that year. They'd be lucky to do the same again in these circumstances and they've shat out a huge amount of cash under McClown on players who are a mix of not good enough, or mercenaries. Ashley won't get away with it again. I see them being play offs at best, but probably mid-table as they struggle to stabilise.
Sunderland would cope better but I think they'll survive anyway.
I think of all the clubs going down, Norwich might actually cope the best.

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They weren't lucky, they were miles better than anybody else, including the Bitters who also bounced back automatically with ease. They won things in the past. They're still shit and small though.

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Either history counts or it doesn't. Sunderland spent 30 years bouncing between 3 divisions and their support was shit. Between 81 and 96 they averaged 20K once.

When did I say it didn't count? I implied that there's more to it than trophies, which there is otherwise we'd be including tin pot outfits like Huddersfield in this discussion too.

There's a point to be made that if the Noses have won double what you have in the past 70 years, you're on a sticky wicket. But the size of the crowds you get, the infrastructure and scale of your footprint on the public conscious or the distasteful financial aspect all count. Sadly this is what makes the playthings of oligarch and human rights abusers big in the vulgar sense like Man City and *shudders* Chelsea are now and have been for under a decade.

I don't see any extenuating circumstances to get Wednesday out of the Small Heath trophy equation, as you can with Sunderland.

[supertom]

They weren't lucky, they were miles better than anybody else, including the Bitters who also bounced back automatically with ease. They won things in the past. They're still shit and small though.

Lucky in as much as the squad didn't get too decimated and despite all the mess somehow pulled together. They also had a couple of players who shone at that level and to some extent a bit of fortune that a then young, virtually unknown Andy Carroll stepped up to the plate and banged in the goals. Gambling on Hughton also paid off. I expect their next appointment to be a disaster in the making.

They were a mess then, but nothing compared to potential cluster fuck they are now. They got away with it once, they won't again. I also think the championship is probably marginally better now than it was back them.
Watch how many rats leave that sinking ship. The fact that Newcastle still rely on Coloccini and Taylor at the back, who helped relegate them last time, tells you everything. They'll probably still be there next season and may not dominate the championship quite like they did before.

Above all though, I will sit and laugh at their failure.

[PeterWithesShin]

By just about any criteria you want to use, Sheff Weds and pre money Man City were big clubs when they were relegated. I can understand younger fans dismissing Weds as they've been shite for 15 years now, but they still pull 20K+ every week, so unless Sky tell them they'll be clueless.
Man Citeh being a big club is a no brainer even before the money.

[SoccerHQ]

Think back to how abjectly shite the Geordies were when they lost 1-0 to us and went down. Not an ounce of fight in them, it was an abject surrender like we have seen ourselves the last few weeks. They have a berk of an owner, they were a shambles, yet walked the league. Being better than 23 shit sides shouldn't be beyond even the dullest of minds running our club.

They had Andy Carroll and Kevin Nolan who absolutely steam rollered the Championship.  We don't have anybody in that class.

Barton was very good that year aswell.

[tomd2103]

Genuine question, how many times has Villa Park been a sell out in the last 20 years?

Burnley game at the end of last season was a complete sell out.

[Pat McMahon]

I think home games next season may still be a shock to the system for us. Teams treating it as one of their 2-3 cup finals, a new away ground for most hence large and noisy away support. When we were last down in 1987-88 it was a similar story and our away form was the key to promotion.

A QPR mate reckons we are worse than they were last season - I think they finished on 30 points so stats will probably back that up come May - and will find the Championship a tough challenge. It will be harder than people think, though at the moment we have no idea who our owner, manager and players will be.

 I certainly wouldn't trust the current squad to get us promoted. When Newcastle went down they at least had some players like Barton and Nolan who were ideal for the battle.

[pbavfckuwait]

As for keeping the parts of the team that we want to, together, only one problem with that plan, any offer the club receives that they think is half decent, the buyers hand will be snapped off.
Have not got a clue what we will be left with or of what quality it will contain, but no coincidence that already we have heard from Okore, now a release clause for Richards, Adama making noises even thou I've spent more time on the Villa park pitch than him, interest for Gill, Sanchez, Kozak may raise some interest, but funny enough if he stayed injury free I think he would have a major impact there, more so than Gestede. I can see Swansea maybe looking at Ayew or as rumored in January having a sniff around Sinclair.
If the petrol allowance cut as has been stated has happened at BMH, Mr. Hollis the de-facto administrator will look and more than likely take any reasonable offer on the clubs biggest drain, the players.
I think from August to November would have been hard if the club had gone down with any fight, but the lack of fight and the ingrained losers mentality will initially I feel have a major impact on the first quarter of next season and then dependent on whats left, who is in the driving seat as a manager we may start to find a level of acceptable performance.

[Chris Jameson]

Above all though, I will sit and laugh at their failure.

I really don't get this, state we're in I'd say we're in no position to mock anybody. I don't get the obsession with Newcastle.

[Witton Warrior]

Above all though, I will sit and laugh at their failure.

I really don't get this, state we're in I'd say we're in no position to mock anybody. I don't get the obsession with Newcastle.

It's just mirroring back their sudden dislike of us I think?