People Lining Up To Take Pot Shots.

[Jimbo]

I'm not sure anyone has said it's nailed on, but it's not totally out of the question, and it would be nothing that hasn't happened to similarly badly run clubs before.

In order to be promoted, we'll need to turn from a losing club into a winning one. In other words a complete turnaround of affairs, a total change in the club's culture. As it stands, I'd say that's most unlikely.

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

[Dave]

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.

It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.

[KevinGage]

Burnley (even and Derby and Sunderland under Mick McCarthy when they stank the league out) could draw on very recent experience of being too good for most of the championship though, even if they weren't up to scratch in the topflight.

We on the other hand have been a losing side for five long years.

[Jimbo]

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.

It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.

It really doesn't just mean that at all.

Did Burnley spend five years having almost every record for shitness broken at their club? Did they have players who, by the managers own admission, are just not trying? Did they have an absentee owner who appears to have given up on the club? Have they made a series of disastrous managerial appointments, signed players on ridiculous contracts, demoted players to a 'bomb squad', had a culture of bullying... I won't go on.

We're not just shit this season, we've been shit, and slowly getting shitter for five long years. That's a culture of shitness that will take some turning around.

[Witton Warrior]

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.

It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.

The problem is we are more like Wigan - flirted with relegation for three seasons (I think) then went down with a history of losing and continued to do so until they reached Division 1 and are now working their way back.

[FiveKenMcNaughts]

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.

It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.

The problem is we are more like Wigan - flirted with relegation for three seasons (I think) then went down with a history of losing and continued to do so until they reached Division 1 and are now working their way back.

Wigan did make the play-offs in their first season in the Championship.

[Richard E]

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.

It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.

The problem is we are more like Wigan - flirted with relegation for three seasons (I think) then went down with a history of losing and continued to do so until they reached Division 1 and are now working their way back.

Wigan did make the play-offs in their first season in the Championship.

And only lost an FA Cup Semi-Final on penalties having beaten Man City away earlier in the competition.

[Dave Cooper please]

According to Tim Poole on the HITC web site, Paul Merson and Steve Sidwell have both said that this could happen.

So what?
I've said it won't happen and I have just as much authority to say that as Steve fucking Sidwell.

Dave Cooper

[old man villa fan]

According to Tim Poole on the HITC web site, Paul Merson and Steve Sidwell have both said that this could happen.

So what?
I've said it won't happen and I have just as much authority to say that as Steve fucking Sidwell.

Dave Cooper

All these people saying we could go straight through the Championship.

Have they volunteered these comments or has it been in response to a leading question by an interviewer.

If I was asked the question, I would be saying "Of course it's possible but I don't think they will". If you leave out the second part of the response, it puts a completely different slant on it.

[Dave]

But a club with a losing culture is the same in any league - it keeps on losing. So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the present ownership and board have what it takes to suddenly get things right after continually getting things spectacularly wrong.

Not necessarily. Burnley went from winning lots of matches in the Championship, to losing lots of matches in the Premier League, back to winning lots of matches in the Championship.

It just means that they have players who are good by Championship standards and not good enough by Premier League standards. Which is a similar problem to us.

It really doesn't just mean that at all.

Did Burnley spend five years having almost every record for shitness broken at their club? Did they have players who, by the managers own admission, are just not trying? Did they have an absentee owner who appears to have given up on the club? Have they made a series of disastrous managerial appointments, signed players on ridiculous contracts, demoted players to a 'bomb squad', had a culture of bullying... I won't go on.

We're not just shit this season, we've been shit, and slowly getting shitter for five long years. That's a culture of shitness that will take some turning around.

And if our players had spent the last five years playing against inferior players rather than playing against better players (like they will be next season), then maybe they would have won more football matches.

Our "culture of losing" didn't seem to matter when we beat Birmingham or Wycombe this season or Bournemouth and Blackpool last season did it? Because our players, although not very good are still better than the majority of the ones playing in the lower divisions.

Of course, this isn't a guarantee. You might be correct and we'll see relegation after relegation after relegation until the ownership changes because if your logic holds then the quality of opposition won't matter, regardless of what division we're in. But I'd recommend you get some money on it sharpish, as I think you'll be looking at some pretty attractive odds.

[Jimbo]

But Dave, we're likely to have different players and less money to spend when we're in the Championship.

Nowhere have I said we're going to plummet down the divisions as a matter of course. But if, as you state, the board have ensured our players are only good enough to consistently beat teams in divisions below the one we're operating in (Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield United, Leyton Orient notwithstanding), then I think there's cause for concern, don't you?

[Dave]

But Dave, we're likely to have different players and less money to spend when we're in the Championship.

Nowhere have I said we're going to plummet down the divisions as a matter of course. But if, as you state, the board have ensured our players are only good enough to consistently beat teams in divisions below the one we're operating in (Bradford, Millwall, Sheffield United, Leyton Orient notwithstanding), then I think there's cause for concern, don't you?

But you have suggested that it's not going to matter that we're playing against worse players next season because it's the 'culture of defeat' that is important. If that's the case, then why isn't that going to be a problem in League One or even League Two? Surely if the culture of defeat means that we need to worry about relegation next season then we need to worry about it in subsequent seasons as well?

I don't think we are going to have significantly different players next season. We'll certainly lose a few and we'll probably sign a few.

As for your final point, I think that nearly everything to do with the club at the moment is of huge concern. But even considering that I think that next season we'll be absolutely fine, because the Championship is filled with a lot of shit teams and that even in our current sorry state we're still going to be much better than most of them.

[Jimbo]

Once upon a time we were a top-six Premier League side. That didn't stop us from becoming the worst team in the division, despite all the shit clubs down the bottom of the table, in five years.

Don't be too shocked if you find that the same failings that made us a Championship standard outfit in the Premier League make us a League One standard team in the Championship.

[Toronto Villa]

The championship has about 6 good teams, including whoever comes down. After on any given season that it's literally 15-18 average sides and a couple of very bad ones. As bad as things appear, just as they would have appeared to Burnley and Hull fans last season we will be better than most teams in that division.

[PaulWinch again]

All this 'we could go down to League 1' stuff is just so pointless and media coverage of it is embarrassing. Yes we could go down again, but we could get promoted at the first attempt or we could finish mid-table. Nobody has any clue what will happen to us next season, but if we keep our best players I predict we're more likely to be near the top of the table than the bottom.