Tottenham vs Aston Villa Post-match thread

[Villa in Denmark]

1.3 points per game will see us on 39 points and almost certainly staying up. 1.4 sees us on 41/42. Champions League form my arse. Unless someone has finished 4th on 53 points (which is 1.4 per game).

So the level of results Sherwood managed last season then?

[The Edge]

To clarify, I'm talking about the spine of the team, Guzan, Hutton, lescott, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor particularly. Bacuna.

That's not the spine of the team. There is no reason that at least four of those players shouldn't be seeing more than the early round of future cup competitions.

But it is though, these are the players that feature regularly and they will continue to do so unless Remi is ruthless

Ruthless doesn't come into it. Even if he is just competent then Okore, Amavi, Ayew and Gana will be in the team ahead of Lescott, Richardson, Gabby and Westwood.

Our spine should be Guzan/Richards/Gana/Gil/Ayew, the fact that three of them don't play is something that I expect will soon be rectified.

Except for Guzan. It is VITAL that he is replaced if we are to have any chance of surviving the drop.

Well yes - given his form this season, he needs to get back to where he was in 2012 pretty sharpish if he doesn't want to be replaced in January.

But as we can't do that for another two months and have the choice of Guzan or Bunn I'd still (just about) stick with him until then.
I know. He was great in 2012. Ever since his horror show against Man City he just hasn't recovered and has been a liability  this season Great shame.

[OzVilla]

Kevin Mac has sacrificed himself so that we can be redeemed.

Picking all of our poorest players with the new manager looking on means that Garde doesn't have to waste any more matches selecting the likes of Gabby, Lescott, Bacuna, Clark, Richardson ever again.

That's the only positive way I can spin it.

I thought the same thing. Gabby, Richardson and Clark in  particular were so poor he won't need to see them again. Shame Westwood went off in a way. Should also see Gil and Ayew as certain starters as they should've been for weeks.

[Dr Butler]

well we were awful last night...but strangely we played well for 15/20mins and we could of been 3-2 up if Bacuna's shot had gone in instead of hitting the base of the post and Gestede's header had of been on target instead of bouncing  past the near post after Lloris started to flap like a Guzan.


alot of work to be done down the Villa.

UTV
The Doc

[Billy Walker]

We simply need to start out performing at least three other clubs on a more consistent basis from here on in.  We only need to display Champs League form, as far as I can see, if those teams in and around us do the same - that seems unlikely.  Two-thirds of a season to go plus a transfer window gives us a huge chance to pull things around: we need to circle the wagons, ignore the shit-stirrers and bullshitters in the media and just focus on ourselves. 

[CJ]

Mike Dean celebrating Spurs goal last night - not for the first time either:

[Billy Walker]

Kevin Mac has sacrificed himself so that we can be redeemed.

Picking all of our poorest players with the new manager looking on means that Garde doesn't have to waste any more matches selecting the likes of Gabby, Lescott, Bacuna, Clark, Richardson ever again.

That's the only positive way I can spin it.

I thought the same thing. Gabby, Richardson and Clark in  particular were so poor he won't need to see them again. Shame Westwood went off in a way. Should also see Gil and Ayew as certain starters as they should've been for weeks.

I thought the same, although I don't agree with the idea Kevin MacD tried to sabotage the club as some are arguing.  He's been with us for over twenty years and I would like to think he has some feeling for the club, fans and players.  My take on last night was that Kevin wanted to give the likes of Gabby and Richardson the chance to rise to the challenge of impressing the new boss.  His selection last night did us all a favour and helped the manager learn a lot.

[footyskillz]

Kmac to say Scottie Sinclair was outstanding last night is rather outrageous. But I do feel Sinclair should be played up front or off striker. He's being wasted on that side position. The number 9 managed to create a shooting opportunity for himself first half and would rather have Jordan ayew on that left side cutting in and Sinclair and gestede or Gabby up top as an attacking two.
Having this system of Sinclair and either Gabby, ayew or kozak gestede up front gives far better impetus.

Regards quality last night and moving forward ball retention will be a key .
Sanchez does a job tackling or intercepting then gives the ball straight to opposition.
Gil needs to be starting and is a busy place.
Hutton has merits going up and down but again seems to be in the player as the outball or spare man and most attacking creative player that must b e address . If this is to happen  Bacuna must be deployed right side preferably as the midfielder and can get the final ball in far better than Hutton, is a goal threat and has pace. Or we bring Richards to right back. So for me Richards or Bacuna at right back.

Clark and lescott unbalanced as a central pairing.
Gnev showed in analysis how the defence were all wrong side of their players in lead up to first goal.
This was a case of poorly organised defence and even though it's considered basic I think it's an indication of the dissary which will be addressed with Remi and his coaching team.

Agbonlahor was given scraps and needed support plus he's carrying an injury so did as well as he could in what was a one sided half to Spurs.
I'm not convinced by gestede and reminds me of an Andy Carroll one dimensional player. He's also nothing without a support but having the world class player benteke downgraded its always going to look less quality.
Gestede ,the master header, really should have equalised and I think people have bought into his best header of the ball that silly Sherwood saying stuck. I mean Sherwood made many stupid statements but this one is really annoying and only seems to have a grain of truth that he can head the ball in and has stuck. Also if that's the case then there needs to be continuolosly servicing Rudy - showing how incompetent Sherwood was in never doing this.
Speaking of incompetent.
The elbow on Westwood was possibility a accident but Dean has to whistle even if he doesn't deem it  foul as the head injury are major and its the rules that erked me as much as Clark ineptitude for the first goal.

The villa goal from some really poor play by Spurs and what's good about ayew had a go and shot something more of the players must do.

Overall 3-1 was a fair reflection though I think 1-0 would be most accurate as the game wasn't a contest or anything after the first goal but Spurs did little too. Eriksen and Kane didn't perform at all and it shows the problem in midfield for villa as Ali scored on edge of area unmakerd.

The positives for me were lescott seemed steady , and Richardson amongst others showed some fight but weren't good enough .

The good thing is got a fresh manager coming in with new ideas and fresh players.

 

[cdward]

I saw KMacs team selection as a sign of support for Sherwood. I think the players and staff liked Sherwood, he did sign K Mac  and bring him back to Villa, and I think the team was a continuation of what Sherwood would have picked. I hope that Garde is able to bring everyone together. Richards, Grealish and K Mac may resent a new manager as they felt thankful to Timmy for giving them chances.

[aj2k77]

MacDonald's assertion that we need to show Champions League form was both bollocks and needless too.

Champions league form would have left us on about 60 points and probably finishing 7/8th. The bloke talks shite. I stopped rating him when we went to Newcastle, newly promoted back, first home game for them and played 5 attacking players and Petrov and got completely mullered. He is brainless.

[Small Rodent]

I’m not sure about deliberately picking a team to shove two fingers up to the club hierarchy. However, if that is not the case, there must be some special award out there for the most creative way of choosing a team that goes totally against your twenty-plus years of knowledge in football, and your assessment of the players available before you.

[fbriai]

Ayew and Gil have to start on the weekend. Amavi and Richards should both be back in, too. Sanchez is frustrating in that he wins the ball so well, but then often gives it away stupidly, but he has to start, too, I reckon. I'd also play Sinclair as he has genuine quality. He does tend to drift in and out of games, but he could be really useful if played in the right way.

Interestingly, the Italian commentator on the game last night noted after about 15 minutes of Gil being on the pitch that he was the only Villa player that played with his head up.

Didn't think Gestede did too bad last night. He's never going to be great with his feet, but the Spurs defence were clearly rattled by his presence whenever we had a free-kick. I think he won nearly every header he went for, too, although Ayew didn't really manage to pick up the flick-ons.

[themossman]

I feel compelled to add my thoughts here. Apologies for the slightly long post.

Firstly, whilst I don't fully agree with the lineup KMAC chose, I can see the logic of staying "steady" by essentially having 2 banks of four with Jack roaming. That bit made a bit of sense. However we've never played that way in the last 18 months, so I doubt a week on the training ground is going to see is proficient.

Richards was banned so at centre half I'd imagine his hands were tied into delivering a pairing of Clark and Lescott. I doubt Okore is match fit yet. Hutton, whilst limited, has been the only player other than Richards to truly offer something to the team going both ways. As I say though, he's limited.

Bacuna on the right made sense as he can cross a ball, but with only Gabby to aim at, that didn't really work out well with Bacuna moving infield far too often leaving Hutton isolated.

Jack was floating and doing okay. Gabby couldn't get into the game at all, and as the Sky "pundits" pointed out...he had few touches. Not surprised to see him come off, but frankly I'd have preferred a change of system at half time as Gabby is the ONLY player we have aside from Sinclair who can stretch a team which not only provides goal threat, but also relieves pressure. Gestede does neither unless it's a set piece.

Ayew, for me, was always lively and seems to be growing (strangely) in confidence. A few tricks came off, and he looked strong.

Westwood and Sanchez were ineffectual for me.

Now......we can't give a goal away like we did, anywhere, and expect to stay up. That is our main problem for me. Ignore the attacking for a minute. We've brought in Richards, Lescott, and Amavi, and we're still shipping goals. We need a change in style and perhaps that's a more robust midfield to anchor us.

After that first goal though, we at least looked like we were growing into the game coming up to half time, and then Delle Ali scored a lovely goal as he had literally acres of space.

I was surprised I didn't see Remi Garde jump back on a plane tearing his new contract up after this.

I've said all along that it matters not who comes in....we're probably going down. Spurs is a difficult place to go, but they didn't do anything other than play in 4th gear to beat us. A few quick passes into the forward who was dropping off and the overlappers spinning in behind and we were undone.

That's what is lacking most at our club. Desire. When the Spurs players (pick any other team we've played this year) had the ball, just look at how far our players had to run to close them down in the first instance. This suggests either poor positioning (I can believe it), a poor system (again...), and/or a lack of desire. The issue for me is that I think it was all of the above.

So, drawing a line under this, we will now have a new manager who has a week to do something with this group.

Let's imagine all of our players are fit. Here's what  I'd do.

GK: Bunn  - Guzan needs some time out of the firing line. He should have saved the first goal, and he's flapping a bit.
DR: Richards - Take one for the team captain
DC: Okore - deserves a chance as has shown glimpses of solidness before.
DC: Clark
DL: Amavi - will make mistakes, but is our best option
MC: Gueye - Can be a rock
MC: Veretout - looks like the only midfield player who can pick up the ball deep, and drive at the opposition. Given too few opportunities.
RW: Traore - Give the lad a go from the start
CAM: Gil - he can't keep coming inside if he's already inside, so let's see what he does from the start, playing in behind somebody.
LW: Ayew - He'll float from that position, and he and Sinclair will swap.
ST: Sinclair - I think his pace is an asset and he can score goals.

Subs:
Guzan
Gabby
Gardner
Senderos
Grealish
Kozak
Westwood

OK, a bit of a gamble, but one I think will provide some steel at the back, with some drive in midfield, and some pace on the wings. Gardner deserves a shot and I'd bring him on against City to test the waters. I've taken Jack out of the side as whilst he looks comfortable on the ball, the positions he's picking up recently have been too deep (not his fault) and he's looking frustrated.

Good post Wiggz. I agree with your team selection as well with the exception of gabby who should not be within 10 miles of the pitch and rudy should be on the bench as he can at least do one thing compared with Gabby's no things.

[Wiggz]

<snippity snip>

Good post Wiggz. I agree with your team selection as well with the exception of gabby who should not be within 10 miles of the pitch and rudy should be on the bench as he can at least do one thing compared with Gabby's no things.

I think the reason why I keep Gabby in there is that he can pop up with a goal or good touch (a-la cross for Ayew against Swansea) and his pace and strength is an asset. I think Sinclair deserves a chance.

I've based my selection on the fact we have no other options until January, so we have to work with what we've got. Westwood needs to be taken out of the firing line, as does Sanchez who isn't the most gifted outside of a destroyer....something that alone, is long gone in the premier league.

[aj2k77]

Having slept on it I am more than ever convinced that the team selection by McDonald for both the games he has managed indicate firstly a premeditated and deliberate insult to his superiors and secondly it shows in stark clarity the split between the established players and the newcomers.  All the evidence indicates that Sherwood and McDonald and Wilkins if he could muster any kind of view, took the side of the predominantly British clique against the predominantly French group.

McDonald knew he was toast once Fox and the board were clearly going to bring in a French team. His reaction was like the employee who knows he is about to be justifiably sacked and uses what time he has left to be destructive.

He is banking on being able to spread his hands, shrug his shoulders and claim that he acted in good faith citing stuff like Gana not being in the squad because he did not impress in training and Agbonlahor getting the hook due to injury.  Under military law that is termed "dumb insolence", the showing of disrespect for superiors and dereliction of duties by default.

That is precisely what McDonald did last night and a measure of whether or not the club can recover will be able to be made by the board's reaction to it. They should have him on the carpet this morning and shout at him until his ears fall off. He made the club look bereft and ridiculous and moreover he did it premeditatedly.  If the whole insulting farago goes unpunished and the spelling of the manager's name in social media is regarded as more serious, the plotting and disruption will simply get buried and return at some future time of crisis.

Under Garde the new players, and hopefully the likes of  Gil, Kozak and Bunn will get proper consideration and the English speaking clique put firmly in their place.  The sun should have set on one or two careers last night.

Brian - this is just paranoid bullshit.  If you truly believe Mcdonald wanted to lose last night you are just deluded.  The team may not have been what you or I would have picked, but lets face it the players we would have picked haven't been contributing to winning games much this season have they?  He went with players he knew and hoped he could trust.  Odd yes.  Malicious?  Get a grip.

Players he could trust? Trust to do what? Lose games?