Tottenham vs Aston Villa Post-match thread

[passitsideways]

To clarify, I'm talking about the spine of the team, Guzan, Hutton, lescott, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor particularly. Bacuna.

That's not the spine of the team. There is no reason that at least four of those players shouldn't be seeing more than the early round of future cup competitions.

But it is though, these are the players that feature regularly and they will continue to do so unless Remi is ruthless

Guzan and Hutton aside I'd be surprised to see any of them feature in the next match. Well, oddly maybe Bacuna could sneak in, but I'm not quite sure how. Other than that, there'll be no Gabby, no Westwood, no Lescott and no Richardson. I'm sure of it.

Subject to how much Garde rates Sanchez (I think he might've played in France while Garde was still at Lyon) I think Westwood might still play if he's healthy. For all his faults, we at least succeed in keeping the ball a little bit while he's in there - when he got dropped for Swansea and in the period between him going off and Gil coming on, we genuinely couldn't string more than a couple of passes together.

[maigrait]

Whilst we were poor in defence and conceded three really soft goals, the FA and mike Dean pissed me off last night. Richards being banned for last night a couple of hours before KO. How were we supposed to prepare for the match? Then Mike Dean giving the full 'homer' referee performance, including missing one of our players getting a whack to the face and playing on for what seemed like ages with added 'celebrate first goal like you scored it' Twat.

Mike Dean saw Westwood getting hit in the face as it was right in front of him, he couldn't miss it. The replay clearly showed him shaking his head and mouthing "no" as he didn't think it was a foul. He's a very poor referee who regularly seems to give decisions against us, perhaps not out of malice but just sheer incompetence. I don't think we've ever won a game that he has been in charge of.

Yes I saw that also. The club should complain to the FA about that. He was literally whacked in the face and Dean went no thats not a penalty... Erm Mike he just got whacked in the face enough to make him get substituted. I was expecting a couple of soft decisions our way after that to make up for him missing it, none came...

[Monty]

I actually like Westwood, at his best I think he can do a very valuable job. The problem is that we've not seen him at anything like his best this season, and keeping him playing is just going to make him get worse and worse. He needs some bench-time, a good sit-down, until in a few weeks he's ready to replace Sanchez as a substitute and see a game out.

[Brend'Watkins]

Whilst we were poor in defence and conceded three really soft goals, the FA and mike Dean pissed me off last night. Richards being banned for last night a couple of hours before KO. How were we supposed to prepare for the match? Then Mike Dean giving the full 'homer' referee performance, including missing one of our players getting a whack to the face and playing on for what seemed like ages with added 'celebrate first goal like you scored it' Twat.

Mike Dean saw Westwood getting hit in the face as it was right in front of him, he couldn't miss it. The replay clearly showed him shaking his head and mouthing "no" as he didn't think it was a foul. He's a very poor referee who regularly seems to give decisions against us, perhaps not out of malice but just sheer incompetence. I don't think we've ever won a game that he has been in charge of.

How he couldn't see that it was a foul from that position is beyond me. Players have been sent off for similar. Even so, if he didn't deem it a foul he still would have seen there was a head injury, so why not stop the game?  I'd also like him to explain  his actions after the Spurs goal.  Particularly odd for an official.

[Phil from the upper holte]

To clarify, I'm talking about the spine of the team, Guzan, Hutton, lescott, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor particularly. Bacuna.

That's not the spine of the team. There is no reason that at least four of those players shouldn't be seeing more than the early round of future cup competitions.

But it is though, these are the players that feature regularly and they will continue to do so unless Remi is ruthless

Ruthless doesn't come into it. Even if he is just competent then Okore, Amavi, Ayew and Gana will be in the team ahead of Lescott, Richardson, Gabby and Westwood.

Our spine should be Guzan/Richards/Gana/Gil/Ayew, the fact that three of them don't play is something that I expect will soon be rectified.

I hope you're right but I'm not expecting to see the back of Westwood/Agbonlahor/Hutton/Guzan anytime soon

[Dave]

I actually like Westwood, at his best I think he can do a very valuable job. The problem is that we've not seen him at anything like his best this season, and keeping him playing is just going to make him get worse and worse. He needs some bench-time, a good sit-down, until in a few weeks he's ready to replace Sanchez as a substitute and see a game out.

I agree - he definitely has a useful place in the squad, but 'first-choice, undroppable defensive midfielder + playmaker' definitely isn't it.

[chrisw1]

Having slept on it I am more than ever convinced that the team selection by McDonald for both the games he has managed indicate firstly a premeditated and deliberate insult to his superiors and secondly it shows in stark clarity the split between the established players and the newcomers.  All the evidence indicates that Sherwood and McDonald and Wilkins if he could muster any kind of view, took the side of the predominantly British clique against the predominantly French group.

McDonald knew he was toast once Fox and the board were clearly going to bring in a French team. His reaction was like the employee who knows he is about to be justifiably sacked and uses what time he has left to be destructive.

He is banking on being able to spread his hands, shrug his shoulders and claim that he acted in good faith citing stuff like Gana not being in the squad because he did not impress in training and Agbonlahor getting the hook due to injury.  Under military law that is termed "dumb insolence", the showing of disrespect for superiors and dereliction of duties by default.

That is precisely what McDonald did last night and a measure of whether or not the club can recover will be able to be made by the board's reaction to it. They should have him on the carpet this morning and shout at him until his ears fall off. He made the club look bereft and ridiculous and moreover he did it premeditatedly.  If the whole insulting farago goes unpunished and the spelling of the manager's name in social media is regarded as more serious, the plotting and disruption will simply get buried and return at some future time of crisis.

Under Garde the new players, and hopefully the likes of  Gil, Kozak and Bunn will get proper consideration and the English speaking clique put firmly in their place.  The sun should have set on one or two careers last night.

Brian - this is just paranoid bullshit.  If you truly believe Mcdonald wanted to lose last night you are just deluded.  The team may not have been what you or I would have picked, but lets face it the players we would have picked haven't been contributing to winning games much this season have they?  He went with players he knew and hoped he could trust.  Odd yes.  Malicious?  Get a grip.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

I actually like Westwood, at his best I think he can do a very valuable job. The problem is that we've not seen him at anything like his best this season, and keeping him playing is just going to make him get worse and worse. He needs some bench-time, a good sit-down, until in a few weeks he's ready to replace Sanchez as a substitute and see a game out.

I agree - he definitely has a useful place in the squad, but 'first-choice, undroppable defensive midfielder + playmaker' definitely isn't it.

Couldn't agree more Dave.
The all-knowing Motson called him "Aston Villa's most creative player" last night as he was taken off, ffs!

[Percy McCarthy]

Just read in the Graun that the FA gave us the option of picking Richards last night or next week. (I posted that as I hadn't seen it mentioned here yet).

[chrisw1]

Just read in the Graun that the FA gave us the option of picking Richards last night or next week. (I posted that as I hadn't seen it mentioned here yet).

Fair play to them if they did.  I would have picked last night as surely that was the game with more chance of us getting something out of it.

[The Edge]

To clarify, I'm talking about the spine of the team, Guzan, Hutton, lescott, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor particularly. Bacuna.

That's not the spine of the team. There is no reason that at least four of those players shouldn't be seeing more than the early round of future cup competitions.

But it is though, these are the players that feature regularly and they will continue to do so unless Remi is ruthless

Ruthless doesn't come into it. Even if he is just competent then Okore, Amavi, Ayew and Gana will be in the team ahead of Lescott, Richardson, Gabby and Westwood.

Our spine should be Guzan/Richards/Gana/Gil/Ayew, the fact that three of them don't play is something that I expect will soon be rectified.

Except for Guzan. It is VITAL that he is replaced if we are to have any chance of surviving the drop.

[Dave]

To clarify, I'm talking about the spine of the team, Guzan, Hutton, lescott, Richardson, Westwood, Agbonlahor particularly. Bacuna.

That's not the spine of the team. There is no reason that at least four of those players shouldn't be seeing more than the early round of future cup competitions.

But it is though, these are the players that feature regularly and they will continue to do so unless Remi is ruthless

Ruthless doesn't come into it. Even if he is just competent then Okore, Amavi, Ayew and Gana will be in the team ahead of Lescott, Richardson, Gabby and Westwood.

Our spine should be Guzan/Richards/Gana/Gil/Ayew, the fact that three of them don't play is something that I expect will soon be rectified.

Except for Guzan. It is VITAL that he is replaced if we are to have any chance of surviving the drop.

Well yes - given his form this season, he needs to get back to where he was in 2012 pretty sharpish if he doesn't want to be replaced in January.

But as we can't do that for another two months and have the choice of Guzan or Bunn I'd still (just about) stick with him until then.

[Wiggz]

I feel compelled to add my thoughts here. Apologies for the slightly long post.

Firstly, whilst I don't fully agree with the lineup KMAC chose, I can see the logic of staying "steady" by essentially having 2 banks of four with Jack roaming. That bit made a bit of sense. However we've never played that way in the last 18 months, so I doubt a week on the training ground is going to see is proficient.

Richards was banned so at centre half I'd imagine his hands were tied into delivering a pairing of Clark and Lescott. I doubt Okore is match fit yet. Hutton, whilst limited, has been the only player other than Richards to truly offer something to the team going both ways. As I say though, he's limited.

Bacuna on the right made sense as he can cross a ball, but with only Gabby to aim at, that didn't really work out well with Bacuna moving infield far too often leaving Hutton isolated.

Jack was floating and doing okay. Gabby couldn't get into the game at all, and as the Sky "pundits" pointed out...he had few touches. Not surprised to see him come off, but frankly I'd have preferred a change of system at half time as Gabby is the ONLY player we have aside from Sinclair who can stretch a team which not only provides goal threat, but also relieves pressure. Gestede does neither unless it's a set piece.

Ayew, for me, was always lively and seems to be growing (strangely) in confidence. A few tricks came off, and he looked strong.

Westwood and Sanchez were ineffectual for me.

Now......we can't give a goal away like we did, anywhere, and expect to stay up. That is our main problem for me. Ignore the attacking for a minute. We've brought in Richards, Lescott, and Amavi, and we're still shipping goals. We need a change in style and perhaps that's a more robust midfield to anchor us.

After that first goal though, we at least looked like we were growing into the game coming up to half time, and then Delle Ali scored a lovely goal as he had literally acres of space.

I was surprised I didn't see Remi Garde jump back on a plane tearing his new contract up after this.

I've said all along that it matters not who comes in....we're probably going down. Spurs is a difficult place to go, but they didn't do anything other than play in 4th gear to beat us. A few quick passes into the forward who was dropping off and the overlappers spinning in behind and we were undone.

That's what is lacking most at our club. Desire. When the Spurs players (pick any other team we've played this year) had the ball, just look at how far our players had to run to close them down in the first instance. This suggests either poor positioning (I can believe it), a poor system (again...), and/or a lack of desire. The issue for me is that I think it was all of the above.

So, drawing a line under this, we will now have a new manager who has a week to do something with this group.

Let's imagine all of our players are fit. Here's what  I'd do.

GK: Bunn  - Guzan needs some time out of the firing line. He should have saved the first goal, and he's flapping a bit.
DR: Richards - Take one for the team captain
DC: Okore - deserves a chance as has shown glimpses of solidness before.
DC: Clark
DL: Amavi - will make mistakes, but is our best option
MC: Gueye - Can be a rock
MC: Veretout - looks like the only midfield player who can pick up the ball deep, and drive at the opposition. Given too few opportunities.
RW: Traore - Give the lad a go from the start
CAM: Gil - he can't keep coming inside if he's already inside, so let's see what he does from the start, playing in behind somebody.
LW: Ayew - He'll float from that position, and he and Sinclair will swap.
ST: Sinclair - I think his pace is an asset and he can score goals.

Subs:
Guzan
Gabby
Gardner
Senderos
Grealish
Kozak
Westwood

OK, a bit of a gamble, but one I think will provide some steel at the back, with some drive in midfield, and some pace on the wings. Gardner deserves a shot and I'd bring him on against City to test the waters. I've taken Jack out of the side as whilst he looks comfortable on the ball, the positions he's picking up recently have been too deep (not his fault) and he's looking frustrated.

[LeeB]

Kevin Mac has sacrificed himself so that we can be redeemed.

Picking all of our poorest players with the new manager looking on means that Garde doesn't have to waste any more matches selecting the likes of Gabby, Lescott, Bacuna, Clark, Richardson ever again.

That's the only positive way I can spin it.

[Villa in Denmark]

27 cup finals

Can we have 27 semi finals instead please?  Those tend to go a git better for us.