Who do you want the next Villa manager to be?

[purpletrousers]

Did this cross club cominghomenewcastle bit of deja vu get posted? I found it an interesting read, someone did a bit of research anyway, interesting quotes.

Thank you.  Interesting article.

Yes thank you. Remi does seem the perfect fit for us. Not just because of our financial constraints but the players we purchased this summer. I can see Gana being our main man in the middle and Ayew and maybe a new signing forming a partnership up front. I hope he gets the best out of Veretout, there is a very good player there.

Glad it's of interest.  Central in that is a lengthy 2013 frenchfootballweekly.com tactical analysis article I didn't wade through.

That site however has a low-fi podcast from this week that discusses Remi Remi, nothing especially new but the couple of apparently knowledgable Brits discuss if it's a good move for him and think we should feel very positive about it, and are pleased to be seeing him likely back into the hot seat, all fits with our hopeful/positive analysis.

"Is Remi Garde the best option for Aston Villa, the pod discusses what he can bring."

46.00 for 5mins

[Villa in Denmark]

If we go down Randy will sell us off to first offer. He is responsible for our dilemma. Letting Martin O'Neill go was the start of it. Go back to Cleveland Browns Randy, you understand that better. Differnt times but lower level teams had biggest ever crowds playing villa 35 plus years ago. Randy it is supporter devotion that keeps you on board. Sty away for 3-4 matches and rattle.his money box for him..he'll sell!

I think not letting O'Neill go earlier was the start of it.

O'Neill should have gone after the 2nd 6th place. He should not have been given the thick end of £50M to buy an entire back 4 12 months after spending £40M on his first attempt.

[Toronto Villa]

Even though in hindsight that might seem right, given all that transpired since but at the time that would have been completely nuts. He shouldn't have been fired. He should have been controlled and if that led to his walk out a year early, so be it. We wouldn't have been in as desperate a financial position and maybe we could have got it whatever mess we were in faster.

[Monty]

Even though in hindsight that might seem right, given all that transpired since but at the time that would have been completely nuts. He shouldn't have been fired. He should have been controlled and if that led to his walk out a year early, so be it. We wouldn't have been in as desperate a financial position and maybe we could have got it whatever mess we were in faster.

People always say that, but look at Watford bringing in Quique or Southampton firing Adkins in favour of Pochettino. Sometimes you have to recognise when the guy in charge has taken you as far as he can, and it's time to upgrade. It would have looked unfair, but it wouldn't have had a better manager took us into the Champions' League the year after - and some on here (not me, I have to admit) were suggesting so at the time.

[Villa in Denmark]

Even though in hindsight that might seem right, given all that transpired since but at the time that would have been completely nuts. He shouldn't have been fired. He should have been controlled and if that led to his walk out a year early, so be it. We wouldn't have been in as desperate a financial position and maybe we could have got it whatever mess we were in faster.

That's my point though.
If when he presented his list of transfer targets that summer, someone had said, "Another new back 4? You're having a laugh. Go away and come back when you want to be serious," either he'd have played ball or walked. Win-win for us.

[Toronto Villa]

Even though in hindsight that might seem right, given all that transpired since but at the time that would have been completely nuts. He shouldn't have been fired. He should have been controlled and if that led to his walk out a year early, so be it. We wouldn't have been in as desperate a financial position and maybe we could have got it whatever mess we were in faster.

People always say that, but look at Watford bringing in Quique or Southampton firing Adkins in favour of Pochettino. Sometimes you have to recognise when the guy in charge has taken you as far as he can, and it's time to upgrade. It would have looked unfair, but it wouldn't have had a better manager took us into the Champions' League the year after - and some on here (not me, I have to admit) were suggesting so at the time.

How many examples exist where a club fires a manager when things are going well? And Southampton didn't finish 6th in back to back seasons. They were sat just above the relegation zone when Adkins got the boot.

[Toronto Villa]

Even though in hindsight that might seem right, given all that transpired since but at the time that would have been completely nuts. He shouldn't have been fired. He should have been controlled and if that led to his walk out a year early, so be it. We wouldn't have been in as desperate a financial position and maybe we could have got it whatever mess we were in faster.

That's my point though.
If when he presented his list of transfer targets that summer, someone had said, "Another new back 4? You're having a laugh. Go away and come back when you want to be serious," either he'd have played ball or walked. Win-win for us.

Not the same as being fired though. The issue is as it has been throughout most of Randy's ownership is that there hasn't been a consistent well thought out plan and under MON very few controls in place. Add to that a massively stubborn individual. A recipe for disaster.

[Monty]

That's exactly my point though. Southampton were doing, according to most people, easily as well as could be expected - but it turns out that most people were wrong, that Southampton could do better, and Pocchettino and Koeman have shown it.

If you look at our performance relative to other clubs back then, many argued we were performing at our maximum as a club. With hindsight, however, we clearly weren't, and paid the price. As to how many clubs sack managers when things are going well enough, well, most don't - most do what we did, namely sit around until the manager's enormous flaws become ever more prominent, until its too late and your moment has passed. It's no good just doing what most clubs do, because most clubs don't do well in the top division - you have to be exceptional to succeed, not conventional.

[Villa in Denmark]

Even though in hindsight that might seem right, given all that transpired since but at the time that would have been completely nuts. He shouldn't have been fired. He should have been controlled and if that led to his walk out a year early, so be it. We wouldn't have been in as desperate a financial position and maybe we could have got it whatever mess we were in faster.

That's my point though.
If when he presented his list of transfer targets that summer, someone had said, "Another new back 4? You're having a laugh. Go away and come back when you want to be serious," either he'd have played ball or walked. Win-win for us.

Not the same as being fired though. The issue is as it has been throughout most of Randy's ownership is that there hasn't been a consistent well thought out plan and under MON very few controls in place. Add to that a massively stubborn individual. A recipe for disaster.

I didn't say he should have been fired, I said that he should have gone, although in hindsight I can see why it would be interpreted that way.
Firing him outright at that point would have been poisonous, unless a replacement came in and improved on results and performances pretty much straight away.
Easier said than done, but we really should have said stop that summer, and the complete new back 4 should have been the thing that set alarm bells ringing.

[dave.woodhall]

Hindsight United - unbeaten league champions since 1888.

[Villa in Denmark]

Your quite right, hindsight is wonderful.

Doesn't alter the fact that if I turn round to my site director and say I want to use £40M on a project to solve a serious problem and 12 months later go back and ask for a further £50M because I got the first design so badly wrong it had to be scrapped, I'd get laughed out of her office, probably with the Danish equivalent of a P45 following me as a paper plane.

I'm just incredulous over a business "investing" 50% of it's annual turnover had no oversight and financial control.

[john e]

Hindsight United - unbeaten league champions since 1888.

you could have that on a t shirt

[dave.woodhall]

Your quite right, hindsight is wonderful.

Doesn't alter the fact that if I turn round to my site director and say I want to use £40M on a project to solve a serious problem and 12 months later go back and ask for a further £50M because I got the first design so badly wrong it had to be scrapped, I'd get laughed out of her office, probably with the Danish equivalent of a P45 following me as a paper plane.

I'm just incredulous over a business "investing" 50% of it's annual turnover had no oversight and financial control.

That's football for you. No board has ever been praised by supporters for refusing a manager money, not least one as popular as O'Neill.

[brian green]

The other factor which legitimises hindsight to a substantial degree is that we onlookers can only piece together what should or should not have happened from what has come into the public domain. The people on whom the onus rests for action to correct situations as they arise were there dealing with the symptoms and fall out from things starting to go awry.

O'Neill did not suddenly start being stupid with Randy's money no more than Karsa and Culverhouse suddenly started (allegedly) bullying young players. There is a point at which foresight and hindsight meet.  Your ability to do your job is knowing when that point has been reached and acting accordingly.

[pauliewalnuts]

When talking about MON and the mess he was allowed to get us into, financially, it is worth pointing out that in that 2006-10 spell, a lot of us actually were pointing out the finances - and specifically the wage bill - and it got raised on General Krulak's thread plenty of times.

The answer was "money - don't worry, we know what we're doing".

Only it turned out they didn't.