Randy Lerner

[dave.woodhall]

Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.

Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.

There is no myth. He was trying to bring a different ethos to the club, one which would have been far more modern and progressive, not to mention sustainable, than that his predecessor had employed. He had some limited success, some of the things he tried didn't work, but in contrast to those who came afterwards he had a clearly-defined idea he was working towards. And for reasons discussed earlier he was, and is still, given far less leeway than any other Villa manager before or since.

A good manager would have looked at the players at his disposal and tried to play to their strengths not tried to force upon them a style that was not suited to them.  Dunne, Collins and Warnock had been excellent the previous season, they were awful under Houllier.  He basically almost relegated a team that had finished top 6 for 3 years running despite also adding an excellent striker to the group half way through the season.  He had a far better squad than the 3 managers that followed him.  I'll never forget the Wigan home match when we conceded a corner without a Wigan player getting near the ball, passing nervously for the sake of it until Dunne overhit a back pass.  I could understand Houllier trying to implement a different style after a major squad overhaul when he's brought in players more suited to his style, but trying to impose it on a good top 6 side who excelled with an alternative style of football was crazy imo.

His big mistake was to change the whole thing too quickly but there was no way that side was going to finish in the top six again whoever was in charge even allowing for everything else that happened.

[silhillvilla]

Houllier is one of the few managers we've had in my time where you actually felt they had a long term idea of what they wanted for the club. Far too often it's been way too short sighted.

What evidence do you have to back that up ? This is the guy who signed Bradley & Pires and ground out consistently poor results and performances .

[silhillvilla]

Correct. A disgrace to the club's name. We should never give up on a major cup competition. We were actually on a decent run before that, too! That soon stopped.

Yes, agree with that too. Silhill was spot on in what he says about the myth of Houllier.

There is no myth. He was trying to bring a different ethos to the club, one which would have been far more modern and progressive, not to mention sustainable, than that his predecessor had employed. He had some limited success, some of the things he tried didn't work, but in contrast to those who came afterwards he had a clearly-defined idea he was working towards. And for reasons discussed earlier he was, and is still, given far less leeway than any other Villa manager before or since.

A good manager would have looked at the players at his disposal and tried to play to their strengths not tried to force upon them a style that was not suited to them.  Dunne, Collins and Warnock had been excellent the previous season, they were awful under Houllier.  He basically almost relegated a team that had finished top 6 for 3 years running despite also adding an excellent striker to the group half way through the season.  He had a far better squad than the 3 managers that followed him.  I'll never forget the Wigan home match when we conceded a corner without a Wigan player getting near the ball, passing nervously for the sake of it until Dunne overhit a back pass.  I could understand Houllier trying to implement a different style after a major squad overhaul when he's brought in players more suited to his style, but trying to impose it on a good top 6 side who excelled with an alternative style of football was crazy imo.

Agree. He was a terrible manager with a good, no very good squad. GMAC held it together ultimately

[Ads]

Without Milner we were not a top six side.

Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.

[Clampy]

I could never warm to Houiller while he was here but I do wonder what a second season under him would have been like. He did seem to have an idea in which direction he wanted to go.

[Villa in Denmark]

He's been the only one who never looked cowed by the size of the job.
He's been the only one that looked like he actually had a plan for how he wanted us to play that didn't involve not crossing the halfway line voluntarily.

[PeterWithesShin]

Houllier is one of the few managers we've had in my time where you actually felt they had a long term idea of what they wanted for the club. Far too often it's been way too short sighted.

What evidence do you have to back that up ? This is the guy who signed Bradley & Pires and ground out consistently poor results and performances .

Well as he lasted less than a season there is no evidence is there. Do you think if his health had held up we'd have been as all over the place as we have been since he left or do you think he'd have put something in place to build on rather than the last 3 managers that just seemed to make it up as they went along?
Do you mean the Bradley on loan that more than held his own in the Dutch, German and Italian top divisions? Fuck me, what a reckless signing that was for a loan player. And the Pires that was the best available as at the time we needed another player and could only sign out of contract players as the window was closed? Who else should we have signed instead of him or should we have just cracked on with a squad ravaged by injury?

[Clampy]

Pires came in because the injury list was horrendous and he was available. Bradley was ok and went on to do well  enough for himself.

[bobdylan]

Without Milner we were not a top six side.

Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.

Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation.  If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.

[Clampy]

Without Milner we were not a top six side.

Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.

Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation.  If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.

I was very critical of him at the time but he did have a shocking injury list to contend with.

[silhillvilla]

It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.

[Monty]

One way he 'lost the dressing room' was by asking them to stop drinking so much and do a bit more jogging.

[Clampy]

It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.

What part of his 'vision' didn't you like?

[dave.woodhall]

Without Milner we were not a top six side.

Also on Warnock, he'd been awful since the cup final, mistake after mistake, epitomised by the daft penalty he gave away at Man City when we were winning. Vile little shit bag too.

Ok I'd agree that without Milner even with Bent and Walker for half a season we were not a top 6 side, but there's no way we were a side that should have been flirting with relegation.  If we'd have dropped into mid table it would have been ok but to plunge as low as we did and treat the FA Cup with disdain was too much for me.

We were that low because we lost our entire coaching staff days before the season started, took over a month to replace them and then had the worst injury list in living memory. Despite that we finished in the top half, and before anyone says it was a false position, nobody ever says the same about 2002-03, when three more goals would have seen us finish eighth instead of sixteenth.

[PeterWithesShin]

It was mismanagement on several levels. Quickly lost the dressing room. Poor results. Poor performances , poor signings - see Makoun aswell .
This "vision" ?? It wasn't a good one. Like I said before though, health wise he wasn't a well man so He needs some slack in that respect.

Is that the same Makoun loads on here were raving about?

I still want to know how Bradley was a bad loan signing after he had held his own in the Dutch, German and Italian top divisions. Or what we should have done instead of signing Pires as we were already reduced to using Hogg, Herd etc because of injuries.