Randy Lerner

[saunders_heroes]

It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.

That's twisted logic.

How do you know it doesn't work?

Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.

By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.

We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?

Talk about taking the heat off the chairman!
There's something rotten at the Villa and it's the structure at the very top that's the problem. Do you really trust Lerner to finally get it right next time around, and do we honestly think we can attract a top manager with the pitiful wages/transfer budget he provides?

[Malandro]

Where is the new chairman Pelty?

[saunders_heroes]

Where is the new chairman Pelty?

Yeah I forgot about that.
Perhaps he's confiding with the shummunites.

[villadelph]

It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.

That's twisted logic.

How do you know it doesn't work?

Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.

By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.

We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?

I prefer the current set up, obviously, but maybe the fact that he swung and missed (horribly) for so many years is what really sticks with people.

Oh and amen with the Townsend/Adebayor bit. Absolute joke for Sherwood to stick his neck out for those quacks.

[pauliewalnuts]

It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.

That's twisted logic.

How do you know it doesn't work?

Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.

By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.

We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?

Talk about taking the heat off the chairman!
There's something rotten at the Villa and it's the structure at the very top that's the problem. Do you really trust Lerner to finally get it right next time around, and do we honestly think we can attract a top manager with the pitiful wages/transfer budget he provides?

I don't trust Lerner to manage to cross a road without walking in front of a truck, I am under no illusions about him. In fact, you surely know my opinion of Lerner from a thousand threads about him on here. It is largely in tune with yours.

The fact is, though, because he still owns the club, it doesn't mean that everything we now do is doomed to fail.

If that were the case, you'd surely be more forgiving of Sherwood's weaknesses? If, after all, it is all about the chairman?

My point was that, currently, the chairman is further away from the day to day decision making than he has been in most of the last nine years. I like it much better that way, and the true test of how the new structure handles things will be when we bin this manager (who they appointed, so they're going to have to be ruthless) and appoint a new one.

Just lashing out at everything at the club doesn't strike me as much of a way at looking at it.

[Malandro]

We should  have seen the moneyball thing coming, Fox said last December “Paddy Reilly is our director of recruiting overall at Bodymoor Heath and Paddy has hired a whole new scouting network on a full-time basis to cover the whole world"

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tom-fox-feature-aston-villa-8279153

[pauliewalnuts]

We should  have seen the moneyball thing coming, Fox said last December “Paddy Reilly is our director of recruiting overall at Bodymoor Heath and Paddy has hired a whole new scouting network on a full-time basis to cover the whole world"

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tom-fox-feature-aston-villa-8279153

The thing is, there's really not much wrong with the players.

Look at the squad we have now, and the squad we had in Lambert's first or second year. Shite like Luna getting games. There doesn't seem to be much wrong with the new players to my eye, either.

I know i much prefer those to the ones Timmy has been telling his mates he wanted. Any day of the week.

The problem is the manager who, as well as being an out of control gobshite who veers between ridiculous bravado at press conferences to blaming everyone else in the press, thinks it is just a matter of telling players to "express themselves" and shows week after fucking week that he has not got a clue tactically.

[PeterWithesShin]

What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple of years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?

[Malandro]

How many decent managers will accept that way of purchasing players?

[saunders_heroes]

It's only a good structure if it works. If it doesn't work it isn't. Nothing Lerner has come up with over the last 5 years has worked therefore it is not a good structure.

That's twisted logic.

How do you know it doesn't work?

Not that long ago, we were enthusing about the signings. They've got a manager who isn't performing. Why not wait and see what they do to rectify that situation before deciding they're just as bad as everything prior to their arrival.

By that logic we could appoint Man City's structure tomorrow and it'd be shit, because everything else Lerner had done had been.

We wanted him to appoint a grown-up structure for absolutely ages. Now he has, but that's shit too because they've appointed a shit manager?

Talk about taking the heat off the chairman!
There's something rotten at the Villa and it's the structure at the very top that's the problem. Do you really trust Lerner to finally get it right next time around, and do we honestly think we can attract a top manager with the pitiful wages/transfer budget he provides?

I don't trust Lerner to manage to cross a road without walking in front of a truck, I am under no illusions about him. In fact, you surely know my opinion of Lerner from a thousand threads about him on here. It is largely in tune with yours.

The fact is, though, because he still owns the club, it doesn't mean that everything we now do is doomed to fail.

If that were the case, you'd surely be more forgiving of Sherwood's weaknesses? If, after all, it is all about the chairman?

My point was that, currently, the chairman is further away from the day to day decision making than he has been in most of the last nine years. I like it much better that way, and the true test of how the new structure handles things will be when we bin this manager (who they appointed, so they're going to have to be ruthless) and appoint a new one.

Just lashing out at everything at the club doesn't strike me as much of a way at looking at it.

I'm lashing out at the chairman because he is the sole reason we find ourselves a laughing stock. The whole sorry mess is down to him running the club on a relative shoestring, and if you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. I for one don't like the structure. I'd prefer a strong manager who signs the players he wants not ones chosen by others.
Until Lerner opens his wallet and spends big money or sells up this is going to continue. Obviously you know this anyway.

[PeterWithesShin]

So it's only moneyball if it isn't the manager buying the players?

[pauliewalnuts]

How many decent managers will accept that way of purchasing players?

What way of purchasing players?

Paying mid-range fees for promising players from all over Europe? That to me looks pretty standard and the sort of thing all managers are going to have to deal with.

What would the alternative to that be? MON style big sprees? £14m on Andros Townsend?

Ronald Koeman seemed quite happy to go to Southampton after they'd sold almost their entire squad to Liverpool. Monk didn't flounce out from Swansea when they sold Bony. They reinvested the money.

If we had flogged Benteke and Delph (incidentally, two players we had no choice about selling) and then pocketed half the money, you'd have a point, but we didn't did we?

These are not Luna, Helenius or Bacuna price bracket signings we have made, it is worth remembering.

[Jimbo]

What moneyball are we doing? The same as we and most clubs have always done, try and find value for money and players that will approve over time? Why wasn't it moneyball when Lambert was doing the first couple otf years? Why are Amavi, Ghana etc moneyball signings but Westwood, Helenius etc weren't? Was Benteke a moneyball signing?

I suppose it boils down to who is choosing the signings. The manager has to agree to the incoming players, surely? I'm not defending Sherwood here, but there has to be some synergy between the system of recruitment and the man who has to make it gel and work.

[PeterWithesShin]

Whether it's the club or the manager buying the players, it's still not moneyball. Buying young talented players is just what we and just about every other club in the world try and do, and having been doing for decades.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'm lashing out at the chairman because he is the sole reason we find ourselves a laughing stock. The whole sorry mess is down to him running the club on a relative shoestring, and if you pay peanuts you attract monkeys. I for one don't like the structure. I'd prefer a strong manager who signs the players he wants not ones chosen by others.
Until Lerner opens his wallet and spends big money or sells up this is going to continue. Obviously you know this anyway.

If Lerner is the sole reason we're a laughing stock, are you absolving Sherwood of blame?

As for wages, you reckon Sherwood is on peanuts? How much more do you reckon some of the managers doing much better than him are on by comparison? Do you reckon Koeman, Monk, Bilic et al, all managers doing way better, are on double his wages?

This entire "manager who chooses the players himself" thing is based on something Sherwood has leaked to his mates in the media. This time two weeks ago there wasn't a whisper about it on here.

Lerner does not have to spend huge amounts to do significantly better than we are. I don't know about you, but I'd take anyone's arm off for a nice mid table finish right about now. That's not going to cost an arm and a leg.

This is not a squad to challenge for the top six, but then again, it isn't a bottom six squad either. The fact we are is down to the manager.