Aston Villa vs Sunderland Post-Match Thread

[CT]

Early days I know, but the one thing that was really winding me up about Gestede was his lack of movement. So much so that I started to watch him when the full backs and midfielders had the ball. He barely moved once. The amount if times the ball went back when we were desperate for someone to hit the space but he just wouldn't budge.

Hugely disappointing performance from him, made worse by the fact TS left him on for the entire game. He should have been off after 60 mins. I hope Sherwood not utilising his Subs isn't going to become a regular occurrence.

Thought Gueye was excellent and was always looking to drive forward and Carlos Sanchez too, always breaking up play and starting moves up. Shame there was no Grealish or Traore because we would have won that.

Sunderland were awful, as was the ref who somehow couldn't see the keeper already starting to waste time 15 minutes into the second half. By the time he booked him he'd already done in 5 or 6 times.

 

[villadelph]

I agree, the future is brighter than ever but you don't think playing the worst team in the league at home is must win?

No. What is the consequence of not winning that game? Are we going to get relegated because we didn't win it?

If it's a "must-win" game, then it's a game-that-you-must-win. As in there are significant implications to not winning it. It's a phrase you hear a lot at the end of the season because there are clear and defined repercussions from not doing so. There aren't any from today.

Unless I'm wrong and you can tell us the direct consequences from not winning today?

Its a collective process!

For Christ's sake. Can you be that daft to honestly believe that starting strong and finishing strong are what it takes to compete in this league?

With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.

Like I said, go hunting before you are hungry.

Yes, it's a collective process, not getting 3 points at home to Sunderland therefore isn't as important as you're making it out to be.  if we get 50 points across the entire season then I'm happy, you sound like you're going to be disappointed if we don't win the league.

As for the mistake thing lets turn it about, would you rather go 1-0 down in the first minute or the last?

The problem is that you used the term must-win, if we win 10 in a row from now will anyone care that we dropped 2 points here?  Where as if it's the last game of the season and a win means we get 4th/get europe/stay up it matters.  Yes the points are worth but 1 is must win the other is want to win, that's the difference that you're refusing to see.

That's all subjective. It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win. Hopefully we do better in the future to drown out this result..? How about we just take the points?

Who are you people? You sound like a bunch of play for fun Sunday leaguers.

Write it off guys, sweep it under the rug. No matter.

[Matt Collins]

Yeah I agree. I can accept a player taking a while to bed in. But if you play one up he's got to have mobility and get in behind. I just don't think Gestede has the tools for that.

[SoccerHQ]

Was I the only one who thought Pantilimon didn't actually have that many saves to make, aside from Westwood's shot I'm struggling to think of anything else he had to do.

We had lots of pressure as you'd expect in a home game v Sunderland but not sure it was quite a hammering.

[Mister E]

I thought there was some really good signs today of a slow ascent out of the chaos of the last five years.
All the players played really well, with the plaudits particularly for Gana, Sanchez and Westwood. Homourable mentions to Richards and Sinclair.
Bacuna was - sadly - very poor: frustrating because he got himself into good positions. Gestede was also poor; a lad trying to find his feet in an unforgiving environment: he was bullied by Kaboul.
Clark unfortunately dropped another clanger: after being beasted by Dann last week, he allowed himself to get mugged by Lens. I'm beginning to lose my faith in his apparent improvement.

Cautiously, I think we are going to be okay this season.

[villadelph]

With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.

Well yes, if you can't understand things like words then it would be seen as absurd. Nobody has said that drawing at home to Sunderland is something to aspire to, it's just not the hellish catastrophe that you're painting it as.

Would you prefer to go one goal down after ten minutes (to pick up your example above) or after 92 minutes?

Surely you can see that the first, while annoying (like today) is better than the latter?  And that they're not exactly the same as each other.

For the fifth time man, I'm not painting this as a catastrophe. I said we played well, I said we have a bright future, I said our midfield was great.

So, given the above, today wasn't a "must-win game"? If was a game that we would hope, even expect to win? And that the fact that we didn't is a bit of a pisser, but in the grand scheme of things probably not going to result in our relegation? And that with our great midfield and bright future that you're so happy with we'll pick up points elsewhere?

Any of that you disagree with?

There are no guarantees with the club. Get points, stay out of the shit.

I don't think we'll be in a relegation battle, fingers crossed, but a lot of others do. Was today a six pointer? Doesn't matter I guess, it's August.

When does the league actually start then? When we start depending on wins for survival? If it comes to that.

[Matt Collins]

The thing is, almost all teams have brought in some very good players. Teams won't be able to be as bad as villa, Sunderland and Leicester were for most of last season and stay up (in my view)

[Dave]

It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.

Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.

Unless you actually believe that if you don't win every game in the league then you've got a problem? If you don't think that, stop calling things "must-win" when they're patently not.

[DesBremner]

Gestede + Ayew = Charlie Austin
Just saying like
But I think with Austin we would have had 4 more points

[paul_e]

Oh, and a couple of asides - apart from giving Gil a yellow instead of a penalty, and leaving it so late to show Pantilimon a yellow for time wasting, is there any other referee that would allow a team to persistently foul so much without showing more cards? And great to see Sir Brian there today

I've said it somewhere, the ref had a terrible 2nd half, they were time wasting for 40minutes and were largely allowed to get away with it, they got all the 50/50s.  The one that frustrated me the most was the body check on our left just before m'vila put defoe in (and defoe's touch was shit).  I think it was Fletcher who just ran into Amavi with no attempt to win the ball and the ref just let it go.

[villadelph]

It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.

Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.

Unless you actually believe that if you don't win every game in the league then you've got a problem? If you don't think that, stop calling things "must-win" when they're patently not.

What?!

We play to win the game. FS.

[Dante Lavelli]

Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.

Hate to agree SV but you are right. Both are OK when we don't have anyone better but  Westwood was like a square peg in a round hole in that position today and Clark was awful for their equaliser.

Westwood wouldn't normally be expected to be the attacking thrust.  Typically we'd have Grealish there.  After that I'd expect Gil and Vertout to also get selected ahead of him once they're more settled.  I think it's a bit unfair to put blame on Westwood today when he's, as you say, a square peg in a round hole, but ultimately taking one for the team by playing out of position.

[andym]

For the second game on the trot Tim didn't react to substitutions made by the opposition manager and again that cost us.

Yes I was screaming at him in the first 5 mins of the second half. Advacaat did well  and the tall blond guy dominated the midfield. He should have switched Westwood back in centre alongside Sanchez to see out their surge but.....

For all this talk that Advocaat made some genius changes and Tim couldnt react, i thought most of our problems in that early 2nd half period were of our own making by individual errors on the pitch. Sunderland replaced the completely ineffective Graham for the slightly more effective Fletcher, and the horrendous Cattermole for Toivonen, yet i honestly didnt see any major tactical issues from that. It wasnt like Sunderland were suddenly camped around our box, its just they now actually had the ball in our half for more than 10 seconds.

Fletcher had a header from a deep cross (clark was weak here) and then the goal - we had the ball on the halfway line, comfortable in possession. Westwood pings it into Gestede whos loses his 1 on 1 battle, Sanchez is weak and loses his 1 on 1 battle, and the less said about Clarks defending the better. Entirely preventable if each player does his job. After that i think they had the Defoe chance where Hutton went to sleep, but apart from that we dominated and should have scored again, and more than once really.

When a team has most of the possession, most of the attacking threat and most of the chances over the full 90 mins, i tend to think the manager has got it right in terms of set up and tactics. Where i think Sherwood can be critisised is that we came out for the 2nd half with far too a careless attitude. It happened last week, and you could argue it happened in the first half today and also midweek. We are showing a lack of concentration and good chances or goals against are happening early on because of it, and that means we are constantly having to find our way back into the game.

[supertom]

Was I the only one who thought Pantilimon didn't actually have that many saves to make, aside from Westwood's shot I'm struggling to think of anything else he had to do.

We had lots of pressure as you'd expect in a home game v Sunderland but not sure it was quite a hammering.

I think poor finishing was a part of that. Bacuna had a couple of good opportunities but fluffed his shots both times. Westwood fired wide in a good position when he should have worked the keeper. Gestede had that turn and shot, the one time I really mugged Kaboul today, but fired disappointingly wide.
I think we had about 20 attempts and only 6 on target.

Richards open goal miss was huge too. How that didn't go in, I have no idea.

We dominated for the most part but whilst we do need to create more clear cut openings, we need to improve our finishing. I still think a new front man is required. However I'm quite happy with the attacking blend we have aside. They will click soon enough and we need Grealish, Gil and Traore fit.

[villadelph]

Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.

Hate to agree SV but you are right. Both are OK when we don't have anyone better but  Westwood was like a square peg in a round hole in that position today and Clark was awful for their equaliser.

Westwood wouldn't normally be expected to be the attacking thrust.  Typically we'd have Grealish there.  After that I'd expect Gil and Vertout to also get selected ahead of him once they're more settled.  I think it's a bit unfair to put blame on Westwood today when he's, as you say, a square peg in a round hole, but ultimately taking one for the team by playing out of position.

Westwood ran his socks off today and I thought he did okay. I don't think he's a world beater but I also don't think he's a weak link.