who is the greatest sportsman ever?

[passitsideways]

Michael Jordan

not even the best basketball player.

Magic was better

Can't agree with you there. Magic had a greater all-round skillset on offense, but Jordan made up for that by being a far superior scorer, while being a pretty good passer himself; while on the defensive end, Jordan was miles better (Magic never made an All-Defensive team even though superstars often receive a couple of nominations by default.) Also, if you look at any of the advanced metrics (PER, WS/48, box score plus-minus, VORP), MJ rates out better, both in regular season and playoffs.

[olaftab]

Mohammed Ali of course! (and Eric Djemba Djemba may be?)

[TopDeck113]

CB Fry.

[Dave Cooper please]

Also, if you look at any of the advanced metrics (PER, WS/48, box score plus-minus, VORP), MJ rates out better, both in regular season and playoffs.

Nope, not a word.

[UK Redsox]

Also, if you look at any of the advanced metrics (PER, WS/48, box score plus-minus, VORP), MJ rates out better, both in regular season and playoffs.

Nope, not a word.

Worryingly, I understand this

I still go with Magic. However, give it a couple more years and Lebron may pass them both.

Magic and Lebron are the only two players I can think of who could be  All-Star calibre at all positions 1 thro' 5

[silhillvilla]

Boxing : Tyson & Sugar Ray Leonard were streets above Ali
Cricket : viv Richards
Golf : Tiger
Tennis : Roger
F1 : Schumakker

[dave.woodhall]

I really don't think I'd like to inhabit a planet where Mike Tyson and Sugar Ray Leonard are regarded as better boxers than Muhammed Ali, or Tiger Woods a better golfer than Jack Nicklaus.

[cdbearsfan]

I don't know enough about golf to comment but surely Marciano (zero defeats) was way better than Ali who, even if we ignore the losses in his later career when his health was in decline, still lost to Ken Norton and Joe Frazier when he was at or close to his peak?

[dave.woodhall]

I don't know enough about golf to comment but surely Marciano (zero defeats) was way better than Ali who, even if we ignore the losses in his later career when his health was in decline, still lost to Ken Norton and Joe Frazier when he was at or close to his peak?

Nowhere close. Marciano was a slugger who was around at a time when the heavyweight scene was poor. He won the title from Jersey Joe Walcott, who until 1994 was the oldest man to win it, and only defended six times.   

[cdbearsfan]

He did win loads of fights before becoming World Champion though, including against Joe Louis.

Does being a "slugger" negate his achievements? Using a football analogy, the Dutch have often had a more elegant style of football than (West) Germany but there is no real debate as to which is the "greater" football nation.

[silhillvilla]

It is quite difficult to judge across decades and generations . Who is "the best" is so subjective as well as dealing with stats and facts and the impact of time upon sport.

[dave.woodhall]

He did win loads of fights before becoming World Champion though, including against Joe Louis.

Does being a "slugger" negate his achievements? Using a football analogy, the Dutch have often had a more elegant style of football than (West) Germany but there is no real debate as to which is the "greater" football nation.

Joe Louis was so far past it when he lost to Marciano he almost caught up with it again.

Being a slugger is no bad thing, but it does mean that he had no other way of fighting, and he also had a style that would have led him to being disqualified in more enlightened times. 

[cdbearsfan]

Okay then. Pound for pound... isn't Mayweather the best ever? Admittedly he fought Pacquiao past his best but he's still fought shitloads of superstars at various weights and never lost. I don't like him, his record is undeniably amazing though.

[dave.woodhall]

Okay then. Pound for pound... isn't Mayweather the best ever? Admittedly he fought Pacquiao past his best but he's still fought shitloads of superstars at various weights and never lost. I don't like him, his record is undeniably amazing though.

No, that's Sugar Ray Robinson.

[passitsideways]

Also, if you look at any of the advanced metrics (PER, WS/48, box score plus-minus, VORP), MJ rates out better, both in regular season and playoffs.

Nope, not a word.

Worryingly, I understand this

I still go with Magic. However, give it a couple more years and Lebron may pass them both.

Magic and Lebron are the only two players I can think of who could be  All-Star calibre at all positions 1 thro' 5

I guess it comes down to stylistic preference in the end. For me, I just don't consider positional versatility to be the primary factor when it comes to deciding who's the greatest overall player in most sports. I just think Jordan's ability to play just the one position is phenomenal enough to beat out the advantage you get from Magic being able to play anywhere at a high level (again, only really an offensive advantage: I suspect he would have been exposed defensively by plenty of centers)