Ditch the Drum

[Dave Cooper please]

As a group who have entered into discussions with the club on numerous occasions, in order to ensure that any disturbance to other fans that may not enjoy the atmosphere we try and create so much is kept to a minimum, we feel let down by the club on this occasion. The club have publicly stated blocks L7 and L8 were designated as ‘singing sections’. This surely means that anyone who has tickets in these sections should expect fans in these areas to be doing exactly that. Singing, creating an atmosphere, standing, supporting the team as loudly and colourfully as possible. This is precisely why Brigada 1874 chose to buy tickets in this area, and to be targeted by stewards and police for doing precisely what the area we were in was advertised for is, at best, poor communication between the club and the stewards it employs.

Not sure which bit of "You are not allowed to stand in a Premier League ground" you don't understand but I'll tell you, it's the bit that says "You are not allowed to stand"!

If you have now moved to an area of the stand which affects even more fans who aren't part of your group with persistent standing then expect more problems this season. Whether I agree with the rule, or with your aims matters not, those are the rules and you are breaking them, persistently.

[Percy McCarthy]

Yeah, the whole "the club are victimising us for standing up" argument falls down when it turns out that only one was actually ejected, and it was for standing on a chair rather than just standing.

Rather than tell their friend to stop being a twat, Brigada seem to have decided to act like martyrs and left en masse.

Yes. I'm broadly in favour of Brigada, but the way they've carried on over this you'd think they were campaigning for votes for women or free education or something.

[dave.woodhall]

With my usual caveat that like Percy I'm broadly in favour, and the Brigada members I've met all seem to be fine, upstanding individuals, they do seem to have difficulty with the concept that for every Brigada member there are around 800 in the crowd who aren't.   

[Dan England]

The only thing Brigada seem to be doing very successfully is pissing off everyone who isn't Brigada. The club,  the stewards, the old bill, other fans........

A group walk out, labelling themselves as Ultras, persistent standing, the f*cking drum, flags waving infront of others, crap statements/PR have done nothing to improve the impression others have.  Maybe if Brigada lost the "Love us or Lump us" attitude all parties might be more receptive.

[Percy McCarthy]

the Brigada members I've met all seem to be fine, upstanding individuals

That can't be denied.

And yes, they are generally good eggs.

[Bungle]

I missed the vote option, but I would go with ditch the thing.  Bring back the bell that was rung from the trinity road in the 70's / 80's.

As for the Brigadas and standing - if they want to stand at a match, maybe they should try non-league no-one has a problem with it there.  Added to which you can often see a good game of football at a fraction of the cost of the greed league.

[AVFC Tom]

Solihull Moors - Top of the National League North 

[Pat McMahon]

Maybe it is just about better dialogue with the club.

Palace's ultras were in the bottom left behind the goal (as you look from the pitch) and were standing or jumping up and down for most of the game. The core seemed to be 200 strong, no more, so an awful lot of people would have been behind the standing / jumping fans. They were still going strong at the end, partly thanks to our dopey gift of a goal, so presumably their stewards and fans in that section are accepting of them.

[Drummond]

Moving without consulting the club is asking for trouble.

Referring to standing as being part of the singing area is wrong as standing is breaking the law.

Trying to engage people and singing songs is great.

[bruisedshins]

Moving without consulting the club is asking for trouble.

Referring to standing as being part of the singing area is wrong as standing is breaking the law.

Trying to engage people and singing songs is great.

The reason we moved without consulting the club is because we have absolutely no trust in the club facilitating such a move. When we've discussed moving in the past they've simply told us to wait and see if more seats would become available in L8 and low and behold we waited until no area was available for us to move into to then find that the club continued to block 20-30 seats from sale in L8. So as you can imagine we were rather wary of going to the club and mentioning any plans of moving.

It isn't illegal to stand in the football ground and standing is not a criminal offence, it's within the remit of the club to allow standing as has been shown at Palace, Man City, Middlesborough, Leicester and Cardiff to name but a few clubs who have actually made the effort to engage with fan initiatives at thier clubs to great effect.

[cdbearsfan]

I'd suggest that the reason they are "blocking seats" is because other fans have tickets there?

[bruisedshins]

I'd suggest that the reason they are "blocking seats" is because other fans have tickets there?

The seats were blocked from sale because the club stated that people had come into the area without tickets. The seats were not owned by anyone.

[PeterWithe]

I'd suggest that the reason they are "blocking seats" is because other fans have tickets there?

The seats were blocked from sale because the club stated that people had come into the area without tickets. The seats were not owned by anyone.

Are you saying that the seats were blocked/empty so those that joined you from other areas of the ground could sit in 'your' area?

If so, isnt that helpful to you?

[pauliewalnuts]

It isn't illegal to stand in the football ground and standing is not a criminal offence, it's within the remit of the club to allow standing as has been shown at Palace, Man City, Middlesborough, Leicester and Cardiff to name but a few clubs who have actually made the effort to engage with fan initiatives at thier clubs to great effect.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me like there might be a difference in what you mean by "allow" and what the club mean.

You're right, the club could "allow" standing if by that you mean turning a blind eye to it. It is pretty clear that this already goes on at most grounds, to the point that it is a given these days that away fans, anywhere, will stand.

There's some doubt there about whether that is mostly about the club turning a blind eye or just facing fact that if 3000 people refuse to sit down, you really can't do a great deal to make them all sit.

However, even then, there is a big murky area between the above version of "allow" and the interpretation of the word which would be involved if the club were to say "you can stand here".

That is surely due to the fact that while the club could theoretically declare the entire Holte End a "standing" area if they want, Birmingham City council as the licensing authority would take a different view.

Then there is the likelihood of this falling foul of other agreements made by clubs as part of their membership of the Premier League.

It's a shitty system which is made to look fucking stupid every single week by anyone who so much as spends ten minutes watching Match of the Day, it is a system which has brought about a "worst of both worlds" scenario where pretty much everyone loses out in some way, but they are still the rules, and ultimately in any conflict along these lines it is the standers who are "in the wrong".

I think that gets lost in the discussion quite frequently and actually loses groups like yourselves the support of a lot of people who are actually for the reintroduction of standing.

[bruisedshins]

I'd suggest that the reason they are "blocking seats" is because other fans have tickets there?

The seats were blocked from sale because the club stated that people had come into the area without tickets. The seats were not owned by anyone.

Are you saying that the seats were blocked/empty so those that joined you from other areas of the ground could sit in 'your' area?

If so, isnt that helpful to you?

The seats were blocked on the pretence that there were people coming into the area without tickets. I'm not in a position to confirm whether this was true or not but it's feasible that some people did so. The club had stewards check peoples tickets on entry to L8 on a number of occassions and i'd imagine that this deterred people from coming into the area without a ticket. So with people wanting to join us unable to buy a ticket in the area and the possibility that they wouldn't be able to sit there should they decide to move over from another area this certainly didn't help us in any way.