Quote from: KRS on August 15, 2015, 04:58:30 PMQuote from: UK Redsox on August 15, 2015, 04:47:05 PMQuote from: KRS on August 15, 2015, 04:38:31 PMI don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.I understand what they're trying to do. Its just what they're trying to do is not allowed under the current regulations. Why should they be given special treatment ?If standing is reintroduced and an area can be set up where Brigada's standing and flag waving does not impact any other supporters (whether standing or seated), then fine**. Until then, they should sit down like everyone else is supposed to.** my use of the word fine should in know way be construed as condoning the use of the drum, that should be banned at all times.The bold bit is where your argument falls down I'm afraid...literally a few thousand ppl stand at most games regardless of the current regulations that everyone *should* sit down. The argument works both ways...why should Brigada be forced to sit down and observe the current regulations unless its enforced around the ground.Not too sure about that.If I get stopped for doing 80 on the motorway, and point out to the police all the other people doing 80 without getting stopped, does that mean I've somehow been wronged?Or, what if someone in the Trinity (or any area where there is no standing) decides he'll stand up for the whole match, obscuring the view of those behind, does the "but you're not making that lot sit down" argument hold any water there?Appreciate the point about checking if the people behind you can see, but there are clearly lots and lots of examples where people have bought expensive tickets for football matches only to find they can't see a thing because the people in front of them are going to stand.What would have happen if the people behind you had said "actually, we can't see a thing because you're standing", for example? The problem at the moment is the system in that there is no way to both give people a place they can stand and watch matches AND for other people to know that when they buy their ticket, they'll have a reasonable chance of being able to see the match.It's a broken system, and there's one obvious way to fix it, but the way the law is now, when it comes down to it, it isn't the people sat down and unable to see the match that are at fault, it is the people standing up.The presence of 3,000 standing away fans doesn't really change that.
Quote from: UK Redsox on August 15, 2015, 04:47:05 PMQuote from: KRS on August 15, 2015, 04:38:31 PMI don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.I understand what they're trying to do. Its just what they're trying to do is not allowed under the current regulations. Why should they be given special treatment ?If standing is reintroduced and an area can be set up where Brigada's standing and flag waving does not impact any other supporters (whether standing or seated), then fine**. Until then, they should sit down like everyone else is supposed to.** my use of the word fine should in know way be construed as condoning the use of the drum, that should be banned at all times.The bold bit is where your argument falls down I'm afraid...literally a few thousand ppl stand at most games regardless of the current regulations that everyone *should* sit down. The argument works both ways...why should Brigada be forced to sit down and observe the current regulations unless its enforced around the ground.
Quote from: KRS on August 15, 2015, 04:38:31 PMI don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.I understand what they're trying to do. Its just what they're trying to do is not allowed under the current regulations. Why should they be given special treatment ?If standing is reintroduced and an area can be set up where Brigada's standing and flag waving does not impact any other supporters (whether standing or seated), then fine**. Until then, they should sit down like everyone else is supposed to.** my use of the word fine should in know way be construed as condoning the use of the drum, that should be banned at all times.
I don't think you understand the concept of what Brigada are trying to do and achieve UK Redsox, and its obviously not possible to that in a seated position. The common sense thing to do would be to speak to the club and have this organised so all parties are happy, and doesn't impact or infringe upon anyone else.
Context to the words "should" and "supposed" to are the key words here. May be my words were too generalised, but I'm not saying Brigada are justified or have any kind of defence on the basis of others standing as there is clearly a common sense and courteous solution here that I have clearly pointed out in previous posts. In any case, its clearly not just an issue of standing vs sitting as there are flags involved which are equally or more view restrictive.With regards to the speeding analogy, thats a bad example as we all know that speeding is against enforceable law regardless of the actions of others, however if someone is asked to sit because they are restricting the view of others by a steward or another fan then the right (or courteous) thing to do is oblige (caveat: unless your view is then subsequently restricted)...you may as well have said I shot someone because someone else did...it doesn't make it right, but its equally not relative to someone standing in a football ground which isn't even an illegal offence:http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/Like I said previously, I don't want this to descend into yet another standing vs sitting debate, but if the chap at the game the other night had asked me to sit down then I would have done so without any fuss and would have subsequently asked the bloke in front of me to sit. Common sense, communication and courtesy.The only common sense solution to this is that Brigada re-open communications with the club and arrange relocation to a more appropriate area of the ground. If they can't manage that then they can rightly expect to be asked to leave the ground more often than not.
In practice, standing to go to the toilet or snack bar and standing at ‘moments of excitement’ is permitted. The boundary between ‘moments of excitement’ and ‘persistent’ is rather grey and open to very wide interpretation. - See more at: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/#sthash.P0DkTNmn.dpuf
That, for me, is why any talk of enforcement or comparisons with road traffic offences falls down completely.
my little lad (7) stands on his chair at every game he goes to a match, he has to when Villa attack or get a corner or something everyone stands up, he stands on his chair, he's pretty adept at it now, I actually think he quite likes doing itI think you know what your getting especially in away games, so he just stands on his chairhe's not got thrown out yet
Especially when said small child only has to stand on the seat because selfish bastards are standing in front of him.
Quote from: john e on August 17, 2015, 07:12:18 PMmy little lad (7) stands on his chair at every game he goes to a match, he has to when Villa attack or get a corner or something everyone stands up, he stands on his chair, he's pretty adept at it now, I actually think he quite likes doing itI think you know what your getting especially in away games, so he just stands on his chairhe's not got thrown out yet There's a fairly obvious difference between a small child standing on a seat to be able to see and an adult standing on a seat.