Ditch the Drum

[leylandalbion]

It wouldn't be hard for the club to arrange movement for exisiting ST holders.  I choose L7 as a) it was the cheapest alternative to the north stand where me and my 3 boys have been for the last 2 years and b) cause I liked what Brigada did last year (minus the drum :-)) & c) stewards in the north are arseholes.  I'm sure those in L7 that didn't want to be amongst flags and standing wouldn't mind being relocated to L6, L5....
Happy to support any cause that brings a vibrant atmosphere to VP....I need it after 4 hours on the M6!

[amfy]

I am sure there is someone at the club who is good enough with words, or a legal representative they can contract who is good enough with legalese, to work this out how to say - 'your seat is now in a standing section, do you want to move? We'll do you a deal!' ......without actually saying that they are creating a standing section!

[Kevin_Brum12]

I am sure there is someone at the club who is good enough with words, or a legal representative they can contract who is good enough with legalese, to work this out how to say - 'your seat is now in a standing section, do you want to move? We'll do you a deal!' ......without actually saying that they are creating a standing section!

Not as easy as it sounds.  AVFC would have a safety certificate agreed with the local authorities, based on being an all seater stadium.

Allow standing in any way, shape or form with any form of legalese and you've breached the said certificate.  Which, if things did go wrong mean the club being prosecuted.

Standing will not happen until the Hillsborough inquests conclude and even then, it is probably highly unlikely.  It looks like fans are going have to accept that top flight football means seating.

[amfy]

I don't think it's easy at all, but there are some clubs that have managed it to some extent.

An example is that for the Championship pay off final, Preston North End sold certain blocks of seats as 'family' blocks & 'singing' blocks. This meant that if you are someone who likes to sit, you could apply for a family block, and if you like to stand you could go in a singing block (so our friend Witton End and his various aliases was not completely wrong, other than the fact that he turned up with this idea after we'd sold our tickets) There were also u designated blocks interspersed for those who like to stand a bit, or swear a lot! Everyone knew what it meant and it worked. Cardiff have done something similar at their own ground. The difficulty is the existing season ticket holders.

Personally - I'd do for that bottom corner between the Holte & The Trinity. It's very visible & can be seen from some of the upper as well as the lower. I don't think there are many ST holders already there (in fact it appears to be quite a difficult area to sell). The one issue is the handful of disabled seats at the back, but I don't think their view would actually be obscured because of the drop before the back row of seats, although I could be wrong. It is actually in a position where it doesn't cause knock on standing, which is why Paul Faulkner had it down for the safe standing trial. I think designating that area as a 'singing' section, & Brigada having their tickets there could work.

The club have to be seen to enforce seating, and that is where Brigada need to give just a little. Just sit for a couple of minutes 2-3 times a game when asked, and the club are covered, and Brigada stay in the ground. Sadly - Brigada have a stated purpose of standing for the WHOLE 90 MINUTES, and this is where the club have a problem - they cannot let them.

[john e]

Villa do allow standing though,
Man Utd fans stood for the whole match and never sat down once, we do the same in most of our away games so I'm not having a go just saying it is allowed

sitting down in an all seater stadium is not enforced for good or bad, but standing is allowed to happen during the entire match

Legally or not it's still allowed

[amfy]

I have already said on this thread that Man U's allocation is reduced for persistent standing.

If people sit down when asked, but pop straight back up again when the stewards walk away, then the club can say - we do all we can to get them to sit down, but they stand up again.

If people just completely refuse to sit down, the club have to be seen to be doing something about this. That something is likely to be a 'once a season' example of ' we've even thrown them out'. Then they can say they are trying to enforce seating.

The club lose money on Man U's reduced allocation. They will therefore be trying to get them to sit down, but they are simply refusing to sit down. They may even throw a few out, but we probably aren't seeing that from where we are, but it is simply not true to say it isn't enforced on away fans, because it is. Further than that, the club have been threatened with sections of The Holte being closed for persistent standing, they do have to be SEEN to enforce seating, but this isn't quite the same as us having to sit. There's a fair bit of manoeuvrability in semantics.

[Villa in Denmark]

My completely puerile answer to the drum question.

[john e]

I have already said on this thread that Man U's allocation is reduced for persistent standing.

If people sit down when asked, but pop straight back up again when the stewards walk away, then the club can say - we do all we can to get them to sit down, but they stand up again.

If people just completely refuse to sit down, the club have to be seen to be doing something about this. That something is likely to be a 'once a season' example of ' we've even thrown them out'. Then they can say they are trying to enforce seating.

The club lose money on Man U's reduced allocation. They will therefore be trying to get them to sit down, but they are simply refusing to sit down. They may even throw a few out, but we probably aren't seeing that from where we are, but it is simply not true to say it isn't enforced on away fans, because it is. Further than that, the club have been threatened with sections of The Holte being closed for persistent standing, they do have to be SEEN to enforce seating, but this isn't quite the same as us having to sit. There's a fair bit of manoeuvrability in semantics.

Fair enough, but I've stood (no choice) up in most of the away marches I've been to over the last few years, I can't ever once remember being told or made to sit down

[Pete3206]

I think it's the weight of numbers standing, (i.e. everyone) that prevents it being enforced. Stewards wading in to force people to sit only causes more crowd problems, so they turn a blind eye to most of it. Plus, they have enough problems as it is, dealing with aggresive and/or drunken arseholes.

[Madferret62]

All clubs have to be SEEN to enforce sitting. Several yesrs ago attending a match at Bristol I behaved like an unconcionable dick and argued with a steward after being asked to sit. His very gentlemanly reply of (channel your inner Bristolian here) "It's my job to ask you to sit, I don't care if you actually sit, I've asked you so I've done my job" has lived long in my memory.  So if Brigada stop behaving like dicks and give a bit they might get what. They want.

The drum? Who cares.

[CT]

I remember one year at Sunderland (the one where Milan Baros scored) stewards made a real effort to get people to sit down. Trouble was, as soon as we attacked everyone just stood up again.

After a few goes they just gave up.

[conman]

i think the problem friday wasnt just standing up
it was actually standing on the seats

[cdbearsfan]

Yeah, the whole "the club are victimising us for standing up" argument falls down when it turns out that only one was actually ejected, and it was for standing on a chair rather than just standing.

Rather than tell their friend to stop being a twat, Brigada seem to have decided to act like martyrs and left en masse.

[Villa in Denmark]

Yeah, the whole "the club are victimising us for standing up" argument falls down when it turns out that only one was actually ejected, and it was for standing on a chair rather than just standing.

Rather than tell their friend to stop being a twat, Brigada seem to have decided to act like martyrs and left en masse. spoiled little kids and taken their ball home.

[montague]

That palace drum and constant drone is driving me mad watching this game