Gabby

[Duncan Shaw]

Lets not forget that block Okore did on Berahino toward the end, Vlaar wouldn't have got into the same postcode.

I agree on that, made a few mistakes but he's human

When Okore makes a mistake, there's always the chance that his athleticism will allow him to recover the situation.

When Vlaar makes a mistake, that's it.

Don't forget Stoke - I'm not bothered if I never see Vlaar in a Villa shirt again.

[Toronto Villa]

I don't see how that's true given how well Vlaar played at the WC and that he was shown to be one of the quickest defenders at the tournament. He made a terrible error vs Stoke compounded by the attempt to compensate for it leading to the penalty. Let's not burn him for it and somehow make out he's an horrendous defender. All defenders including the greats make errors and have made them. Yes, even Laursen and McGrath. Vlaar isn't at that level off course but neither is he as bad as being portrayed.

[OCD]

Okore looked very nervous. Not surprising given that when we conceded goals, there was no comeback so there must have been huge pressure on the defence. Hopefully that'll go with some confidence coming back and hopefully scoring goals becoming less of an issue. Otherwise the circumstances might mean we need someone of Vlaar's experience and leadership (Clark's one yellow card away from a 2-game ban too so we can't dismiss Vlaar).

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

To be fair it was a shit goal to concede. Very poor. Far post nod back from good in the air CH to an unmarked striker 4 yards out.

A perfect example of the kind of naïve errors we make that most other teams never do...like not picking up players from short corners and wasting corners, free kicks will alarming regularity.

[supertom]

I don't see how that's true given how well Vlaar played at the WC and that he was shown to be one of the quickest defenders at the tournament. He made a terrible error vs Stoke compounded by the attempt to compensate for it leading to the penalty. Let's not burn him for it and somehow make out he's an horrendous defender. All defenders including the greats make errors and have made them. Yes, even Laursen and McGrath. Vlaar isn't at that level off course but neither is he as bad as being portrayed.

In the Stoke game he really struggled for pace, but of course he's had so many niggling injuries this season that it has clearly affected him, and he probably wasn't full fit in that game.
I would stick with Okore. Half of the rucks he makes are simply concentration and he will hopefully sharpen up and regain the form he showed earlier in the season. I think he's going to potentially invaluable because of his pace. His interception when Ideye was put through was great and none of our other CH's would have made that.

Unless Vlaar is absolutely 100% fit, and Okore has had an absolute mare of a game, I wouldn't change at this point.

[Pat McMahon]

To be fair it was a shit goal to concede. Very poor. Far post nod back from good in the air CH to an unmarked striker 4 yards out.

A perfect example of the kind of naïve errors we make that most other teams never do...like not picking up players from short corners and wasting corners, free kicks will alarming regularity.

I agree frankmoss. I was with a mate and said before the corner I didn't like Gabby marking Lescott.  5 seconds later he was saying the same thing.

An awful lot of forwards are not great at defensive work and I think Gabby falls into that category.

[Toronto Villa]

To be fair it was a shit goal to concede. Very poor. Far post nod back from good in the air CH to an unmarked striker 4 yards out.

A perfect example of the kind of naïve errors we make that most other teams never do...like not picking up players from short corners and wasting corners, free kicks will alarming regularity.

you do realize that the reason we are surrounded by sides equally as bad as us is because most teams have defences that make naive errors. In fact I'd go as far as to say all teams do, just the better ones make less of them. Have you seen some of the comedic defending from Man U this year, or Liverpool over the past two or three seasons? Arsenal's defence has been slated this year for some right howlers. Cahill is hardly superb at Chelsea and has been caught out positionally, Mangala at Man City, even Kompany has made some pretty high profile mistakes. All teams have moments where they let in very soft goals. Sides like ours just make more of them.

[supertom]

To be fair it was a shit goal to concede. Very poor. Far post nod back from good in the air CH to an unmarked striker 4 yards out.

A perfect example of the kind of naïve errors we make that most other teams never do...like not picking up players from short corners and wasting corners, free kicks will alarming regularity.

you do realize that the reason we are surrounded by sides equally as bad as us is because most teams have defences that make naive errors. In fact I'd go as far as to say all teams do, just the better ones make less of them. Have you seen some of the comedic defending from Man U this year, or Liverpool over the past two or three seasons? Arsenal's defence has been slated this year for some right howlers. Cahill is hardly superb at Chelsea and has been caught out positionally, Mangala at Man City, even Kompany has made some pretty high profile mistakes. All teams have moments where they let in very soft goals. Sides like ours just make more of them.

Yes. I don't think there's a genuinely rock solid defence in the league. It's a dying art. Which makes our piss poor goal record all the more galling. We need to be taking advantage.

[Ron Manager]

To be fair it was a shit goal to concede. Very poor. Far post nod back from good in the air CH to an unmarked striker 4 yards out.

A perfect example of the kind of naïve errors we make that most other teams never do...like not picking up players from short corners and wasting corners, free kicks will alarming regularity.

I agree frankmoss. I was with a mate and said before the corner I didn't like Gabby marking Lescott.  5 seconds later he was saying the same thing.

An awful lot of forwards are not great at defensive work and I think Gabby falls into that category.

I watched it on the tele yesterday and again this morning. Gabby had switched off just before the free kick was taken. If he was supposed to be marking Lescott he failed to follow instructions. He reacts about one second after the free kick was taken. That one second was vital.

[fredm]

To be fair it was a shit goal to concede. Very poor. Far post nod back from good in the air CH to an unmarked striker 4 yards out.

A perfect example of the kind of naïve errors we make that most other teams never do...like not picking up players from short corners and wasting corners, free kicks will alarming regularity.

I agree frankmoss. I was with a mate and said before the corner I didn't like Gabby marking Lescott.  5 seconds later he was saying the same thing.

An awful lot of forwards are not great at defensive work and I think Gabby falls into that category.

Gabby has rarely been effective at defensive marking.  He should be left upfield when the opposition have a corner as it would immediately nullify two of their players who would stay back to watch him. Especially the other night after he had scored his goal  they would have been scared shiteless about him having a run on goal.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

Couldn't agree more fred...amongst all of the sophisticated possession and complicated tactics we sometimes lose sight of the really simple stuff.
Rob's description of their goal is spot on: you'll see the same move being employed on 95% of pitches at all levels this weekend, yet we fell for it.
Gabby's speed frightens defenders so employ him where he can create danger just by being there...and as an outlet/potential threat when we clear the ball.
Hope he plays the same role tomorrow as he did on Tuesday.

[OCD]

If we left Gabby up at set pieces, the opposition would probably leave 3 back and it puts a question in their mind.

[villan from luton]

I dont understand the ploy of nearly all teams nowadays to get all players back. If we leave Gabby up, there are at least two of their players back and the likeliehood that a ball out may cause problems instead of the defender having no challenge and knocking the ball back in

[Duncan Shaw]

I dont understand the ploy of nearly all teams nowadays to get all players back. If we leave Gabby up, there are at least two of their players back and the likeliehood that a ball out may cause problems instead of the defender having no challenge and knocking the ball back in

Me neither, absolutely mad.  I'd leave two up personally, split wide across the half way line.

[Gregorys Boy]

The goal the other night was just the right kind of goal for him to score.  It was a classic Gabby style goal, and if he is going to hit good form he needs to get back to that more direct style of play.  For me if it is him and Benteke up front it is Benteke who needs to drop deep, and Gabby who should use his pace to run in behind.  That way Benteke can hold the ball up, wait for the midfield runner or knock on to Gabby, or he can turn himself and head for goal, and Gabby can create space in the box.  Sadly I think the other night maybe a flash in the pan.  I do think CB will be leaving in the summer, and remain unconvinced that Gabby will ever return to anything like his old form.  But there is hope at least