It's not Sherwood!

[Hookeysmith]

Lazy kids always love the teachers that let them doss.

Very true. And the bright kids that want to do their best have quite a bit of contempt for them.

The trouble with kids that go off the rails and are given in to, it takes a long time to correct.

Couldn't agree more.
Was saying exactly this to my mate on Boxing Day...how long has this easy-going, "the lads are a great bunch/like family", it'll all be ok, the lads were excellent stuff malaise been going on at VP? Gabby is the obvious, glaring example - has looked unfit, overweight, unprofessional for several years but no-one seems to have had a word!
Garde seems to have seen it and is addressing it...along with a number of previously overlooked glaring issues.
A change of culture of this nature will take some time!

I really like Garde's tough approach. Clearly Gabby has been a bad influence and all the players look  hell of a lot fitter.

[Dante Lavelli]

The last bloke that truly tried to correct this was Houlier in my opinion, and he was following 4 years (?) of MON.  That is a long enough period to consider it cultural and ingrained into the dna of the club.  Fox appears to have spotted this and has started to put an infrastructure in place where the manager is not the sole personality however it will take a lot of time and energy to turn a ship the size of Villa around. 

This is one reason why relegation may be a blessing.  If we stayed up I can imagine the club doing a collective sigh and just carrying on more or less as they have done for the past decade thankful for the sky money.  Whereas, following relegation, all levels of the club will need to be scrutinised and rebuilt.

[kippaxvilla2]

Let's have no revisionism when it comes to Lambert.

Worst home record twice
Biggest away defeat
Biggest number of goals conceded consecutively without reply - 16
Only top flight team ever to lose a two legged semi final to a tier 4 team.
A goal of the month competition cancelled because we didn't score one (something that used to be reserved for Carrot sketches about Small Heath).
Losses to Bradford, Millwall, Sheff United, Orient in the process.

What we have now is terrible of course but I'd rather this any day of the week than that mind boggling awful dross served up under that 'we go again' chancer.

[Jimbo]

The last bloke that truly tried to correct this was Houlier in my opinion, and he was following 4 years (?) of MON.  That is a long enough period to consider it cultural and ingrained into the dna of the club.  Fox appears to have spotted this and has started to put an infrastructure in place where the manager is not the sole personality however it will take a lot of time and energy to turn a ship the size of Villa around. 

This is one reason why relegation may be a blessing.  If we stayed up I can imagine the club doing a collective sigh and just carrying on more or less as they have done for the past decade thankful for the sky money.  Whereas, following relegation, all levels of the club will need to be scrutinised and rebuilt.

The question being, do we have the right people in place to rebuild? If a hurricane demolishes a simpleton's house, all you're left with is the simpleton and a pile of rubble.

[aj2k77]

Jimbo you are right, this club will struggle going forwards no matter what division we are in with the triumvirate of idiots that are Lerner, Fox and Reilly.

[Proposition Joe]

Going down 3-2 to Leicester after being two up shattered our confidence this season and that can be blamed on Sherwood. Any decent manager would have strengthened the midfield but not that idiot. The team has never recovered from that, two brilliant goals and then it was allowed to turn to shit.

The key point from that awful day was Sherwood lost confidence in himself. Despite all the bluster that came afterwards, he lost the one real weapon in his armory, his self belief. Look at the lucky dip team selections and formations that came afterwards, it was him panicking and scrabbling about in the dark desperately trying to find something that clicked again.

For me, the Leicester game and its fallout is at least 75% the reason for where we are now.

[ozzjim]

I agree. That game was the moment we should have fired him. The same thing at home against Swansea too. Leading and did not bolster the midfield to stem the tide.

[Risso]

The last bloke that truly tried to correct this was Houlier in my opinion, and he was following 4 years (?) of MON.  That is a long enough period to consider it cultural and ingrained into the dna of the club.  Fox appears to have spotted this and has started to put an infrastructure in place where the manager is not the sole personality however it will take a lot of time and energy to turn a ship the size of Villa around. 

This is one reason why relegation may be a blessing.  If we stayed up I can imagine the club doing a collective sigh and just carrying on more or less as they have done for the past decade thankful for the sky money.  Whereas, following relegation, all levels of the club will need to be scrutinised and rebuilt.

The question being, do we have the right people in place to rebuild? If a hurricane demolishes a simpleton's house, all you're left with is the simpleton and a pile of rubble.

No we don't.  When we get relegated, we'll still have tthat pair of idiots Lerner and Fox in charge, only we'll have even less money, smaller crowds and fewer good players.  I think anybody expecting a Southampton-like transformation is going to be sorely disappointed. 

[ozzjim]

I don't think it will be anything like that Risso but Newcastle came straight back just by holding onto some of their better players. I think we will do that too. It won't change those in charge though

[kippaxvilla2]

The pressure to get back up first time will be immense.  I genuinely think it will be a long time before we come back if we don't manage it first time of asking.

[old man villa fan]

If we go down, we need to identify what we need to come straight back up and then go and do it.  Clear straightforward management of the club will be required.  If we reach a point where we will definitely be relegated, next season starts then.

We will then see what Fox and others are made off.  Mistakes have been made on past managers dismissals and appointments and timing of, together with exactly how much should have been spent on players and when.  Most of this I have put down to uncertainty from Lerner, rather than incompetence.

[mike]

I don't mean to start a shit storm of abuse. For various reasons, I have not seen a single minute of football this season, so what follows is an honest question of those who have had the fortitude to watch us home and away... given results since he left, was Sherwood the problem? If so, why?

[rob_bridge]

I don't mean to start a shit storm of abuse. For various reasons, I have not seen a single minute of football this season, so what follows is an honest question of those who have had the fortitude to watch us home and away... given results since he left, was Sherwood the problem? If so, why?

Sherwood's position was untenable as the results and performances were unacceptable.

a) He was out of his depth
b) When things started to go wrong he undermined his subordinates
d) When things started to go really wrong he blamed his bosses claiming he didn't recruit said subordinates and advised he would have preferred to spend more money on other subordinates which would have only added to our woes as it was akin to the MON/McLeish approach of offering big money to under performing cretins

Was he the only problem? Nope. No way.
Was he part of the solution. See above.

[ChicagoLion]

I don't mean to start a shit storm of abuse. For various reasons, I have not seen a single minute of football this season, so what follows is an honest question of those who have had the fortitude to watch us home and away... given results since he left, was Sherwood the problem? If so, why?

Here is my take.
Sherwood was not the only problem. It is now abundantly clear that this squad was not equipped to sustain our position in the PL.
That simple fact can not be wholly blamed on the Manager.
His part of the problem was not utilising the resources he had in respect of team selections and substitutions.
The situation has been exacerbated by a number of player errors which have also cost goals and points.
When things did go wrong he was completely out of his depth and his antics at the end were shamefull.

[ciggiesnbeer]

I don't mean to start a shit storm of abuse. For various reasons, I have not seen a single minute of football this season, so what follows is an honest question of those who have had the fortitude to watch us home and away... given results since he left, was Sherwood the problem? If so, why?

Under him we had a terrible run of results that continued after he left, so that tells you he was not the whole solution, nor the whole problem.

My view is that we were actually incredibly unlucky this season sort of making up for the fact we were very lucky last season.

Tim Sherwood is likely that kind of manager who will go on to run another one of the bottom premier league clubs at some point in the future. I wish him no ill. We need to focus on the long term plan to get back into the Premier League. That kind of job is too much for Tim Sherwood or even Garde if I am honest.