It's not Sherwood!

[cheltenhamlion]

The game at play on ruthless is, at what point do you tell the boss he is wrong? Lambert was looked after because of Lerner. Fox was new to the role. When do you stamp your feet and say "bollocks boss, I am in charge now, so let me get on with it"?

Perhaps with a throwaway shrewd I over egged the pudding. But he really isn't a fucking idiot and is very business savvy. That Sherwood was his man will mean questions are asked.

But the relationship between the two appears to be toast.

[Dante Lavelli]

Let's make this clear, Fox will be hurting at how his man is behaving. He really isn't as daft as some people make out. I can assure you he is a shrewd and ruthless fucker.

Sorry, but anybody who is going to put Tim Sherwood on a shortlist of managers of one and have to "convince him" to take the job can in no way be described as "shrewd".

There's a big chunk of hindsight being applied there.  Whilst I was against his appointment, I'd guess it was 60/40 in his favour.  Not to mention he was successful in his immediate target.  You never know, if Fox now appoints a stellar manager who builds the club up, then the whole sequence of events might be viewed as genius in 18 months time.  Fingers crossed etc.

[Ger Regan]

Let's make this clear, Fox will be hurting at how his man is behaving. He really isn't as daft as some people make out. I can assure you he is a shrewd and ruthless fucker.

Sorry, but anybody who is going to put Tim Sherwood on a shortlist of managers of one and have to "convince him" to take the job can in no way be described as "shrewd".

He might well be ruthless, but he's shown that he is every bit as incompetent as anybody who has gone before him when it comes to picking a football manager.

On top of that he has appointed a former Arsenal Commercial manager as DOF. I think he is totally daft.

That's not correct. Fox was the commercial director, halmstadt has a footballing background.

[footyskillz]

Also, what he's said today and recently is in the same line - always blaming the players like it's nothing to do with him. That's the absolute first thing a manager must not do, and you always knew that things at Man United had got bad when Ferguson criticised the players in public because he'd reached the last resort. Sherwood does it instantly, just to make sure he's looking after Number One. It's really annoying.

Exactly. As annoying as it was for us when Lambert was saying "we were excellent" etc, I used to say that I wouldn't want him slating the players in public, but I hope he is tearing a strip off them in the dressing room. As you say, only criticise as a last resort. With Sherwood it seems his default setting is to publicly blame anyone but himself.

This is like Roy Keane . they don't know  how to relate and understand other players Iin a manager to player capacity. They may understand football yes and obviously  could play a bit but they probably resent not getting the wages the players are on who aren't half as good as them.  It also comes from a lack of experience and a misheld belief they can develop and manage a  team . no chance it works long term with these types of characters I'm afraid

[olaftab]

That's not correct. Fox was the commercial director, halmstadt has a footballing background.

OK but my statement was based on this below and Talksport discussion earlier today.
"While with the Gunners, Almstadt worked for the Tom Fox in data analytics, financial budgeting and contract management,"

[cheltenhamlion]

Give them a chance is all I am suggesting.  Sherwood was what we needed at the time. Not now. I think they aren't so green as cabbage looking but the next week or 2 will answer that.

I genuinely believe we might be surprised by what they come up with. If we aren't,  we are fucked.

[Dave]

Perhaps with a throwaway shrewd I over egged the pudding. But he really isn't a fucking idiot and is very business savvy.

*shrugs*

You've clearly met him and are basing that opinion on your interactions with him, which is fine.

But having a managerial vacancy, not even considering any other manager in the world and deciding without talking to anybody else that a bloke who is literally only one level up from any random youth team manager anywhere in the world isn't just 'not savvy', it's negligence on a far more serious level than anything that Sherwood himself has done.

I could easily believe Sherwood getting an interview and blagging his way to the position, but the story about how he became our manager is demonstrable evidence that Fox doesn't know what he is doing.

[Ger Regan]

That's not correct. Fox was the commercial director, halmstadt has a footballing background.

OK but my statement was based on this below and Talksport discussion earlier today.
"While with the Gunners, Almstadt worked for the Tom Fox in data analytics, financial budgeting and contract management,"

He was also involved in  technical scouting, the academy and athletic development, apparently, so all in all the sort of roles I would expect a DoF to be involved in.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Well hopefully Fox has learnt a lesson. I hope and expect he will be interviewing multiple well qualified candidates and deciding who is the absolute highest quality. If that means paying compo to another club then fine.

No more of this "we know our man" bollocks. This board does not know their man, that is clear. Even if it takes us a few weeks with an interim manager take the time make sure the replacement is the very best from a long list of interviewed candidates.

[Monty]

Well hopefully Fox has learnt a lesson. I hope and expect he will be interviewing multiple well qualified candidates and deciding who is the absolute highest quality. If that means paying compo to another club then fine.

No more of this "we know our man" bollocks. This board does not know their man, that is clear. Even if it takes us a few weeks with an interim manager take the time make sure the replacement is the very best from a long list of interviewed candidates.

That's why we should have sacked Sherwood two weeks ago. At least.

[olaftab]

Give them a chance is all I am suggesting.  Sherwood was what we needed at the time. Not now. I think they aren't so green as cabbage looking but the next week or 2 will answer that.

I genuinely believe we might be surprised by what they come up with. If we aren't,  we are fucked.

Let's hope you are right. I have more belief in you than Fox or Sherwood at the moment.

[Ger Regan]

He might well turn out to be another dud, but I think it's a little unfair to make judgements on fox's abilities just yet. The sherwood appointment worked in the (very) short term, now he has to show he can appoint someone with the long term in mind.

[themossman]

There is still an argument that says Sherwood was one of the few people who could keep us up last season, and he did. In which case fox's choice was shrewd. But to take credit for this, he would also have to act decisively now in getting a replacement who keeps us up again, and on a more sustainable upward trajectory.

[aj2k77]

Give them a chance is all I am suggesting.  Sherwood was what we needed at the time. Not now. I think they aren't so green as cabbage looking but the next week or 2 will answer that.

I genuinely believe we might be surprised by what they come up with. If we aren't,  we are fucked.

Good surprised or Mcleish type surprised? I have no trust in Lerners Villa.

[themossman]

(So basically what Ger said)