It's not Sherwood!

[Chico Hamilton III]

So basically we just need to keep on sacking managers unless they win almost every match.

I struggle with people making judgements so early into his job at our club. He has signed 10 new players over the summer, who've hardly had a chance to play together yet and despite all those changes people are criticising him. He did what most people have been crying out for, making  a positive substitution, yet still he gets flack for it. He had a punt and it didn't quite work out, our last few managers would have taken off an attacking player and put another defender on; just to keep the score down.

I don't think anyone has suggested he should be sacked but I have no problem with people criticising some of his decisions and tactic, even after only 3 games. It comes with the job. Every manager from Mourinho downwards is in the same boat. If we were top of the league and had lost 2 games on the trot (and don't forget the terrible run in last season - albeit with someone else's squad) he'd still be getting criticism. Doesn't mean he should be sacked but he should be reminded of what is expected of him. How do you suggest fans should react after 2 losses? Anyway, beat Sunderland and the pressure is off for a week.

[RussellC]

In regard to Gabby - and in Sherwood's defence - I can actually understand why he's started the first 3 games of the season. He's one of only a few players left in the sqaud with genuine premiership experience and we're in a huge period of transition, where players like Gestede, Ayew and Traore are either not fully match fit or still bedding down. gabby was woeful on Saturday, but Sherwood would have seen him get into similar positions away at Sunderland last year and actually do a convincing impression of a composed, experienced striker. He'll have also seen him score a very important goal at home to the Albion and, in general,play an not-insignificant role in our whole turn-around.

Therefore I think that Sherwood's goodwill to Gabby is understandable, and the fact that he's named him only as the 'Club Captain' suggests that he doesn't regard him as an automatic starter now.

With 2 very winnable home-games coming up this week, and on the back of some obvious mistakes in his last match, I think we'll learn an awful lot about Sherwood in the next 7 days.

[David_Nab]

I think he needs more time given the amount of changes we have had , he has 2 on paper easier games now in the cup and league so hopefully we can build some momentum.Some of his subs and team selections frustrate me.Gabby constantly getting 90 mins whilst looking useless is a mystery just as his subbing of Sinclair and Sanchez in the last 2 games when both where playing well.

One thing I will say is if things don't turn around I don't expect him to be left plodding along like Lambert was , Fox will bin him if we look in trouble.

[Brend'Watkins]

So basically we just need to keep on sacking managers unless they win almost every match.

I struggle with people making judgements so early into his job at our club. He has signed 10 new players over the summer, who've hardly had a chance to play together yet and despite all those changes people are criticising him. He did what most people have been crying out for, making  a positive substitution, yet still he gets flack for it. He had a punt and it didn't quite work out, our last few managers would have taken off an attacking player and put another defender on; just to keep the score down.

I don't think anyone has suggested he should be sacked but I have no problem with people criticising some of his decisions and tactic, even after only 3 games. It comes with the job. Every manager from Mourinho downwards is in the same boat. If we were top of the league and had lost 2 games on the trot (and don't forget the terrible run in last season - albeit with someone else's squad) he'd still be getting criticism. Doesn't mean he should be sacked but he should be reminded of what is expected of him. How do you suggest fans should react after 2 losses? Anyway, beat Sunderland and the pressure is off for a week.

People can criticise all they want if they wish.  I think it's pointless to do so.  But for a silly mistake we'd be a point better off and there'd be far less of the criticism.  If after 3 or 4 months and we don't see the signs of improvement we hoped for and the tactics, incorrect substitutions, no plan B etc are evident then there's more justification for it.  I do get the feeling though that there are a number of people rather willing to sharpen the knife where Sherwood is concerned as he wasn't their choice from the off. 

[Ads]

Minds were made up in February with Sherwood. The evidence is in the first few pages of this thread.

[Monty]

Minds were made up in February with Sherwood. The evidence is in the first few pages of this thread.

That's not fair. Many of us nay-sayers now have much more positive views of Our Tim than when he started. That doesn't suddenly make him the perfect manager, immune from criticism.

[curiousorange]

I can't remember who it was (possibly Roy Keane in his pre-Villa days) that said you need about 8-10 games of the season before you really know how strong you're going to be. I think there's a whole lot of truth in that, because by and large it gives people a chance to calm down about teams like Leicester having good early momentum and giving managers a better idea of who is fit, ready and vital to the backbone of their team. Like a few others on here I'm still sceptical about Sherwood's tactical choices and his substitutions which aren't bizarre exactly, just maybe not effective enough, but he's a few dozen games into being the main man at a Premier League club, so I don't think he's exactly crashing and burning.

You may point to Monk at Swansea or Koeman at Southampton and say they were once in the same boat and are doing better, but Sherwood's come in to a club that can't decide if it wants to be huge or not, lost two key players and built near enough a new squad and has been treading water for years, all while learning what it takes to finally run a club. He's doing okay for the time being.

[Dave]

I'm still sceptical about Sherwood's tactical choices and his substitutions which aren't bizarre exactly, just maybe not effective enough, but he's a few dozen games into being the main man at a Premier League club, so I don't think he's exactly crashing and burning.

I don't think that anybody has said that he is crashing and burning. He's doing a solid job so far, littered with a few creases that need ironing out, like you would expect with most managers.

Apparently though all criticism, however minor is rendered invalid just because he wasn't a universally popular choice when he was first appointed.

[KRS]

I like Tim. I like his style, honesty and personality. I like what he is trying to develop and I can see his vision on and off the field. I believe in what he is trying to achieve, and I want him to succeed and be successful at this club for many years to come...however I wont blindly defend him when he makes clear mistakes, and he needs to learn from those mistakes. Its going to take a while for the new team of players and backroom staff to gel so as Aston Villa supporters we need to be patient and show support as its genuinely going to take time for all the new personnel to click. If he can get the new players consistently performing to the levels and style that we saw glimpses of last season then we'll be in for some exciting and enjoyable football.

[Hookeysmith]

I like Tim. I like his style, honesty and personality. I like what he is trying to develop and I can see his vision on and off the field. I believe in what he is trying to achieve, and I want him to succeed and be successful at this club for many years to come...however I wont blindly defend him when he makes clear mistakes, and he needs to learn from those mistakes. Its going to take a while for the new team of players and backroom staff to gel so as Aston Villa supporters we need to be patient and show support as its genuinely going to take time for all the new personnel to click. If he can get the new players consistently performing to the levels and style that we saw glimpses of last season then we'll be in for some exciting and enjoyable football.

I agree with this totally but the nagging doubt I have is that were all of the players he has bought bought with a purpose and to fit into a plan or was they just a collection of decent players that were identified that fitted the bill

Young, potential, possible to sell at a profit

I too think it is way too early but I would have liked to have seen after a full pre season a formation and style of play that were his own - at present it looks still shambolic at times, Ayew, Vertout etc  - surely he bouight them knowing what their best positions and attributes were. We can allow time to get fit and up to speed with play in the premiership but does he actually know where to play them

[oldhill_avfc]

I like Tim. I like his style, honesty and personality. I like what he is trying to develop and I can see his vision on and off the field. I believe in what he is trying to achieve, and I want him to succeed and be successful at this club for many years to come...however I wont blindly defend him when he makes clear mistakes, and he needs to learn from those mistakes. Its going to take a while for the new team of players and backroom staff to gel so as Aston Villa supporters we need to be patient and show support as its genuinely going to take time for all the new personnel to click. If he can get the new players consistently performing to the levels and style that we saw glimpses of last season then we'll be in for some exciting and enjoyable football.

I agree with this totally but the nagging doubt I have is that were all of the players he has bought bought with a purpose and to fit into a plan or was they just a collection of decent players that were identified that fitted the bill

Young, potential, possible to sell at a profit

I too think it is way too early but I would have liked to have seen after a full pre season a formation and style of play that were his own - at present it looks still shambolic at times, Ayew, Vertout etc  - surely he bouight them knowing what their best positions and attributes were. We can allow time to get fit and up to speed with play in the premiership but does he actually know where to play them

With regard to your first point, I suspect its a mixture of both - as always.

As for your second, then I'm sure he knows where to play them but what he doesn't know is (a) are they good enough and (b) how well will they fit in and what partnerships will they form with the rest of the team.

[kippaxvilla2]

"We have to take it on the chin and go again."

Now, he doesn't want to be starting down that road for a start off.

[oldhill_avfc]

I never cease to be amazed by this type of thread.  Endless cycles of 'Tactics Tim' switching to he's a genius and back within a couple of results. 

From what I see there's little evidence for criticism so far.

He inherited a very poor squad. Since then he's tried to address the massive issues in that original squad and plug the holes left by losing arguably the 3 best players.  Now he's trying to gel them into a team that can perform.  How can it be so hard for many of you to realise that nobody is going to be perfect in that process?

In my opinion I think we'll seriously struggle and do well to avoid relegation, but that's not the point.  I have no evidence.  It's just my opinion and in the same way the manager has his opinion. 

Time will tell - just stop the knee jerk reactions until it does!

[SamTheMouse]

I never cease to be amazed by this type of thread.  Endless cycles of 'Tactics Tim' switching to he's a genius and back within a couple of results. 

From what I see there's little evidence for criticism so far.

He inherited a very poor squad. Since then he's tried to address the massive issues in that original squad and plug the holes left by losing arguably the 3 best players.  Now he's trying to gel them into a team that can perform.  How can it be so hard for many of you to realise that nobody is going to be perfect in that process?

In my opinion I think we'll seriously struggle and do well to avoid relegation, but that's not the point.  I have no evidence.  It's just my opinion and in the same way the manager has his opinion. 

Time will tell - just stop the knee jerk reactions until it does!

Those of us with nagging doubts are basing them on the only empirical evidence we have of Sherwood in management to date, most of which was at Spurs. Nobody is making knee-jerk judgments here. Nobody is calling for him to be sacked. We all know it will take time to see whether he has what it takes or not, just as it took time with Lambert.

There are those who have faith he'll be a success, and those who suspect he might not. But as you say, they're just opinions, and we're all entitled to them.

[kippaxvilla2]

I wanted him to come, I liked his enthusiasm, his energy and a bit of brashness that we had been lacking under the 'rabbit in headlights' Scotsman.

My current and main concern is that he is a novice trying to lead a team largely of novices.  It could work, but it will not be overnight and in any way shape or form easy.