It's not Sherwood!

[john e]

The football we played on Sunday was high class,
also take into consideration we were playing Liverpool at Wembley its almost miracle like having seen what we have been like for the last 3/4 years

Someone on here said it was like watching a BFR team, and that's true,
It's not all been legal highs since Sherwood came though, I remember walking out against Stoke and thinking that was as bad as it gets and we had no hope

So I'm still gobsmacked By the whole thing

[JG]

The football we played on Sunday was high class,
also take into consideration we were playing Liverpool at Wembley its almost miracle like having seen what we have been like for the last 3/4 years

Someone on here said it was like watching a BFR team, and that's true,
It's not all been legal highs since Sherwood came though, I remember walking out against Stoke and thinking that was as bad as it gets and we had no hope

So I'm still gobsmacked By the whole thing

I don't think you can underestimate the state of the squad he inherited. Low of confidence, no time to work with them, can't bring any players in. We all went to the Stoke game expecting a big performance and 3 points, so that performance was a huge reality check about the job at hand. I think in hindsight it's quite unbelievable just how much he's turned things round. There's no doubt he's having to play a few lads he doesn't really rate, but they are the best available to him and we seem to be getting better every game. I'm positive if we played Stoke, Newcastle & Swansea now we'd get different results.

[Phil from the upper holte]

I agree JG, After Newcastle and Stoke I felt as bad as I did after Hull because I just thought we'd had it

[pauliewalnuts]

Sherwood is a manager who still hasn't yet chalked up the equivalent of one full season of matches in charge in his career.

It's pretty hard to see how one can make a judgement, positive or negative, on his tactical acuity based on such a short period of time.

In the meantime, so long as he keeps us up, that's all I care about for now, I am not going to worry about the tactics he used to do it. That can wait till next season onwards.

It probably got lost a few pages back with the board going down for a bit last week but you've made this too short to judge argument a few times now Paulie.

I don't disagree but I would counter with....why where you so convinced we should've given Houllier longer if his health had held up as surely we were talking about a very small game sample aswell considering under him we were rubbish between September 2010-January 2011, picked up for a few weeks when we signed Bent, went shite again by losing at home to Wolves and then picked up again when he was ill anyway and Gary Mc was in charge.

In the short period of time we've probably played much better consistently under Sherwood than at any stage under Houllier and that was with him having a far better squad to choose from although I acknowledge there were plenty of internal problems destabilising things within the squad.

That's a whole different argument, though.

I'm not talking about whether Sherwood should get more time or if he needs to be sacked, I'm talking about people judging him on his tactics - whether it be positive or negative judgment.

I don't remember being particularly pro-Houllier to be honest, but FWIW the two situations are totally different. Houllier had a long, successful managerial career behind him, so any judgements of him were going to take that into account. What's more, we finished ninth that season, and while Houllier was off sick, it was his management team doing the coaching.

Worth noting, too, that we finished ninth that season. If you look at the background to that season, was finishing ninth enough to get the sack? I don't think so.

Sherwood is a rookie manager who inherited a squad and team which had amassed some truly awful records and was, IMO at least, looking more and more like getting relegated.

To that end, the only thing that bothers me about Sherwood's tactics is that he keeps us up, and I imagine that his approach to league games will reflect this. He's going to have us playing however he thinks he needs to to avoid going down.

Once he's done that, he can start to shape the club as he wants it to be, and that's why I won't judge him on tactics - either way - this season. He can, for example, have us spend 90 minutes launching long balls at Benteke if it brings the results we need to stay up this season.

If he starts doing it next season, though, that's a different kettle of fish.

I just find some of the stuff around him - "tactics tim", for example, which is without a doubt meant to be derogatory - to be stupid when you look at how short his career is.

[john e]

I think the tactics tim thing can play into his/our hands

on the train down on Sunday the Liverpool fans thought like a lot on here that he was a good cheerleader but tacticly was a lost boy
like Paulie says no one know anything for sure just yet

then he totally destroyed a Brendon Rogers team complete with all his high end tactical nouse and sent them back to wonder what hit them

as long as people keep underestimating him and his team the better,
 lets hope Arsenal and Wenger think exactly the same

[Monty]

He forced Brendan to change his formation midway through the first half. He did that to Pulis and to his buddy Ramsey at QPR, and I think that represents quite a run of tactical victories. He doesn't necessarily respond as well as he could, it seems, but he's really put the shiters up quite a few opposition managers so far, so good for him.

[LeeB]

He forced Brendan to change his formation midway through the first half. He did that to Pulis and to his buddy Ramsey at QPR, and I think that represents quite a run of tactical victories. He doesn't necessarily respond as well as he could, it seems, but he's really put the shiters up quite a few opposition managers so far, so good for him.

I think, and feel free to shoot me down, that not responding may be part of the plan, given our situation.

The players clearly believe in his plans. Tinkering and changing things at the first sign of trouble can undermine this belief.
 

[peter w]

Yeah, tactically I think he is sound up to a point. i think he knows how to get at teams but what to do when it doesn't work out is where he still needs work. Its okay not caring what the other side do but when what we're doing isn't working, or they out play/think us we need more than just give it to Benteke.

[Monty]

He forced Brendan to change his formation midway through the first half. He did that to Pulis and to his buddy Ramsey at QPR, and I think that represents quite a run of tactical victories. He doesn't necessarily respond as well as he could, it seems, but he's really put the shiters up quite a few opposition managers so far, so good for him.

I think, and feel free to shoot me down, that not responding may be part of the plan, given our situation.

The players clearly believe in his plans. Tinkering and changing things at the first sign of trouble can undermine this belief.

Well, I'm not sure about that, because you can have a plan which isn't based on your formation, as the formation is mostly just about defending and making sure you're not outnumbered in various places. You can keep the same style and change formation - in fact, sometimes to stick to the plan you have to change formation, depending on what the opposition are doing.

I'm not certain Tim has really thought about that so much, I have to say. However, what I like about how he thinks is that he's always on the attack, looking for weaknesses. I loved that his response to facing Liverpool was to field two playmakers, actually - we haven't had a manager who thinks like that since BFR.

[Brend'Watkins]

Yeah, tactically I think he is sound up to a point. i think he knows how to get at teams but what to do when it doesn't work out is where he still needs work. Its okay not caring what the other side do but when what we're doing isn't working, or they out play/think us we need more than just give it to Benteke.

I don't think we do.  Just giving it to Benteke works great as it takes more than one to get the ball off him and so creates space for others.  It's a great plan as long as he's on form which he is now.

[john e]

if you want a really good laugh, read the first few pages of this thread again

if your a regular poster it would probably be best viewed eating a big pie with a humble filling

[Monty]

if you want a really good laugh, read the first few pages of this thread again

if your a regular poster it would probably be best viewed eating a big pie with a humble filling

I do, regularly. The humble pie is ruining my diet plan. That said, I did always think he could keep us up - I just never thought we'd be sailing through to the FA Cup final with verve and elan and other words to that effect. I have the same long-term reservations as others do, but so far I'd be lying if I didn't say how delighted I am to be as wrong as I was.

[john e]

if you want a really good laugh, read the first few pages of this thread again

if your a regular poster it would probably be best viewed eating a big pie with a humble filling

I do, regularly. The humble pie is ruining my diet plan. That said, I did always think he could keep us up - I just never thought we'd be sailing through to the FA Cup final with verve and elan and other words to that effect. I have the same long-term reservations as others do, but so far I'd be lying if I didn't say how delighted I am to be as wrong as I was.

I dont have a problem with being wrong about stuff, its just opinions at the time
I was wrong about MON, Lambert, Hutton, Delph etc and no end of other things

[Monty]

Indeed, and I always like being wrong if I was being pessimistic. It's being optimistic and wrong that's the killer.

[Malandro]

if you want a really good laugh, read the first few pages of this thread again

if your a regular poster it would probably be best viewed eating a big pie with a humble filling

Just done it and surprised myself that I didn't post until around the 40 page mark but remembered it was when my father-in-law was in hospital.
A lot has happened in a short space of time.