We've not had a Martin O'Neill argument in ages...

[Dave]

I thought the last few remnants of the O'Neill myth had been ground into dust by the Sunderland debacle?

[spangley1812]

Belgium v Wales today at 5pm, hopefully it's on TV
Benteke 5/1 first goal

Its on SKY

[passport1]

[quote autpuppyonty link=topic=52273.msg2711142#msg2711142 date=14ignore6135814]
Facts such as...what? Paying £8.5m for Nigel Reo-Coker? Consistently scoring very few goals at home compared to the rest of the top ten? Come on, drop your blind, puppyish love for Saint Martin and actually try and argue a cogent case in his defence. Or, you could continue to be snide, sarcastic and sulky.
[/quote]

A cogent case as opposed to selectivity?  You name Reo-Coker, but Ignore Milner. Any manager you care to name has made signings that did not work out.

MON was trying to sign first team aswell as squad players.The price was dictated by the market. Do you think Milner was worth £28m? Managers do not set prices the market does.

As I stated earlier what he inherited was abysmal, so if the aim was to get into the top four within five years then a lot of money had to be spent.That was the stated agenda.

 Imagine what would have to be spent to achive that now.We are roughly where we were when MON took over.

That illustrates why denigrating his achievements by calling him a bellend etc is disrespectful and illustrates a lack of football knowledge and complete disregard for the facts.

You may not like his tactics or formations but quoting Gabriel Marcotti, a journalist who to the best of my jnoledge has never kicked a ball does not support your argument.He has a preconceived bias already stated. I think he was the one who used the phrase'the myth of O'Neill.' Wonder how is is coping with him replacing Trapattoni


I have no puppy eyed love of MON, but I would swap what we have now to have those days back in a heartbeat, and anyone arguing that they were bad is frankly deluded.

[dave.woodhall]

Nobody has said that the O'Neill years were bad. What HAS been said is that with the resources he had available he should have done better, and his legacy continues to cause problems.

[Monty]

Marcotti may have never kicked a ball professionally, but neither has Mourinho, whereas Alan Shearer and Diego Maradona were both brilliant players. Who is better at managing?

The Milner signing, along with the Ashley Young and, in its way, Carew signings, were impressive. However, the majority of his signings were overpriced and fantastically unimaginative. Remember when he spent a summer trying to pay £15m for David Bentley? How embarrassing was that?

The crucial factor behind our relative success at the time was not Martin O'Neill but Randy Lerner's money. We should have done better, we should have played better, and we sure as hell deserved better than a manager who seemed to refuse to learn from his mistakes almost out of spite.

[aj2k77]

MON inherited Mellberg, Laursen, Gabby, Cahill, Sorensen, Delaney, Barry, Bouma, Angel. Certainly not horrible, I always felt the vibe around the club was worse than the players we actually had...... which sounds familiar to what we see right now.

For all the money he spent and the relative ''success'' we had under him Moyes and Redknapp both finished top 5 during his reign here and he spent considerably more cash than both.

[passport1]

Marcotti may have never kicked a ball professionally, but neither has Mourinho, whereas Alan Shearer and Diego Maradona were both brilliant players. Who is better at managing?

The Milner signing, along with the Ashley Young and, in its way, Carew signings, were impressive. However, the majority of his signings were overpriced and fantastically unimaginative. Remember when he spent a summer trying to pay £15m for David Bentley? How embarrassing was that?

The crucial factor behind our relative success at the time was not Martin O'Neill but Randy Lerner's money. We should have done better, we should have played better, and we sure as hell deserved better than a manager who seemed to refuse to learn from his mistakes almost out of spite.

Are you seriously suggesting that Gabrielle Marcotti is on a par with Mouriniho??

He is not someone whose opinion of MON counts, he is a journalist, not exactly a breed known for their integrity.

If all that matters is Lerners money, then that spent on Bent, N'Zogbia,Given, Hutton etc should have just resulted in more of the same.

They were all top dollar aswell and MON had nothing to do with it.

[dave.woodhall]

Marcotti may have never kicked a ball professionally, but neither has Mourinho, whereas Alan Shearer and Diego Maradona were both brilliant players. Who is better at managing?

The Milner signing, along with the Ashley Young and, in its way, Carew signings, were impressive. However, the majority of his signings were overpriced and fantastically unimaginative. Remember when he spent a summer trying to pay £15m for David Bentley? How embarrassing was that?

The crucial factor behind our relative success at the time was not Martin O'Neill but Randy Lerner's money. We should have done better, we should have played better, and we sure as hell deserved better than a manager who seemed to refuse to learn from his mistakes almost out of spite.

Are you seriously suggesting that Gabrielle Marcotti is on a par with Mouriniho??

He is not someone whose opinion of MON counts, he is a journalist, not exactly a breed known for their integrity.

If all that matters is Lerners money, then that spent on Bent, N'Zogbia,Given, Hutton etc should have just resulted in more of the same.

They were all top dollar aswell and MON had nothing to do with it.

On what planet was Bent not a good signing?

[passport1]

You can't be serious

[Richard E]

Marcotti may have never kicked a ball professionally, but neither has Mourinho, whereas Alan Shearer and Diego Maradona were both brilliant players. Who is better at managing?

The Milner signing, along with the Ashley Young and, in its way, Carew signings, were impressive. However, the majority of his signings were overpriced and fantastically unimaginative. Remember when he spent a summer trying to pay £15m for David Bentley? How embarrassing was that?

The crucial factor behind our relative success at the time was not Martin O'Neill but Randy Lerner's money. We should have done better, we should have played better, and we sure as hell deserved better than a manager who seemed to refuse to learn from his mistakes almost out of spite.

Are you seriously suggesting that Gabrielle Marcotti is on a par with Mouriniho??

He is not someone whose opinion of MON counts, he is a journalist, not exactly a breed known for their integrity.

If all that matters is Lerners money, then that spent on Bent, N'Zogbia,Given, Hutton etc should have just resulted in more of the same.

They were all top dollar aswell and MON had nothing to do with it.

On what planet was Bent not a good signing?

It must be the one where he didn't pretty much single handedly keep us up in his first 4 months as a Villa player.

[Monty]

I'm not saying that Marcotti is 'on a par' with Mourinho, I'm just saying that the views of someone who could kick a football don't necessarily trump those of someone who watches a lot of it. You're right that Marcotti really dislikes MON, but you haven't discredited his reasons, which are that he feels MON is a vastly overrated kick-and-rush merchant who wouldn't make it in any other league of the European top five, and he's right. Oh, but I forgot, Marcotti's a journalist, which instantly invalidates everything he thinks. Strong argument that.

As for the rest of your points, the fact there have been so few such signings since MON's day that you had to pick out Hutton (a lot in wages but not in fee), a player who is in fact now playing pretty well, shows how desperate you are. I'd argue further, but it would be like putting my foot on the head of a puppy who's floundering in the sea.

[passport1]

And his current resale value?

[Dave]

And his current resale value?

When you consider Reo-Coker, Sidwell, Beye, Luke Young, Harewood, Friedel, Davies, Dunne, Routledge, Shorey, Cuellar, Heskey and Warnock is that really a route of discussion that you feel works in O'Neill's favour?

[dave.woodhall]

Marcotti may have never kicked a ball professionally, but neither has Mourinho, whereas Alan Shearer and Diego Maradona were both brilliant players. Who is better at managing?

The Milner signing, along with the Ashley Young and, in its way, Carew signings, were impressive. However, the majority of his signings were overpriced and fantastically unimaginative. Remember when he spent a summer trying to pay £15m for David Bentley? How embarrassing was that?

The crucial factor behind our relative success at the time was not Martin O'Neill but Randy Lerner's money. We should have done better, we should have played better, and we sure as hell deserved better than a manager who seemed to refuse to learn from his mistakes almost out of spite.

Are you seriously suggesting that Gabrielle Marcotti is on a par with Mouriniho??

He is not someone whose opinion of MON counts, he is a journalist, not exactly a breed known for their integrity.

If all that matters is Lerners money, then that spent on Bent, N'Zogbia,Given, Hutton etc should have just resulted in more of the same.

They were all top dollar aswell and MON had nothing to do with it.

On what planet was Bent not a good signing?

It must be the one where he didn't pretty much single handedly keep us up in his first 4 months as a Villa player.

Or the one where he was averaging a goal every other game before an injury which ruined his career.

[passport1]

And there we have it.

Asks for a cogent argument then resorts to name calling and sarcasm.

Look in your parallel universe on here you clearly have a party line.Its just regretable that the media treat some as the voice of Villa supporters.

Sound more like the voice of Randys PR machine to me.