Ball possession

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If Clark takes his chance agaisnt Arsenal and Richarson against Man City, then who knows. Small margins in these games.

To resuscitate that disagreement you were having with Jimbo - you could say "well, if Coutinho hadn't hit the post..." surely?

These things happen, both in our favour and against us, over the course of a season.

You need to take your chances against the top sides, as they don't give you many. That can apply to Clark, Richardson and Countinho's efforts.

More seriously and specifically I think Clark's chance was harder to miss and came at a time where I thought we were on top.

[PaulWinch again]

It's not really griping though, it's identifying an issue that we clearly have. Our record at home has been really poor for years and it's because we struggle to engineer opportunities if we're not counter attacking. So really instead of just saying 'it's the way we play', it should be something that's looked at and addressed. Also it's not particularly entertaining for the crowd for their team's tactics to be based on sitting back and soaking up pressure at home.

It is also not something that has just appeared this season, we've been like this for three years.

Playing that way doesn't mean you never win games - of course it doesn't, look at Hull or Liverpool - but if your opposition almost always passes the ball twice as much as you do, or if you never have the lion's share of possession, there's not much football going on there.

I also thought we'd realised - after having it graphically proven over the course of a couple of seasons - that just expecting to counter attack all the time is not good enough, because that is not always going to be an option.

Hopefully that will change this season, but I haven't seen much evidence of that so far.

Precisely, of course we'll get isolated results with our smash and grab approach. I don't even particularly mind it if we're away to the sides at the top of the table. However at home to the top sides and home or away to weak sides, we need to learn how to use the ball and create our own chances. It's also pretty obvious our current tactics aren't drawing in the crowds at home, so something needs to change.

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For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

[Monty]

For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

I agree. A good defensive display is not luck.

[pauliewalnuts]

For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

I agree. A good defensive display is not luck.

I agree, no luck there, the defensive displays were very good.

However, that doesn't change the point across a wider period of time, that we fail to pass the ball with any real conviction, and invariably find ourselves having less of it than the opposition - an approach which isn't going to get us very far (like it didn't last year, or the year before that, when we also went to Anfield and won).

We finished last year with only one side having less possession than we did - Crystal Palace.

I don't think it is nay-saying or doom mongering to suggest that we might want to improve that sort of statistic (which in turn, might help us get more people to attend our matches).

[PaulWinch again]

For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

Not as such no, but the lack of goal scoring opportunities we create will come back to haunt us at some stage.

[PaulWinch again]

For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

I agree. A good defensive display is not luck.

I agree, no luck there, the defensive displays were very good.

However, that doesn't change the point across a wider period of time, that we fail to pass the ball with any real conviction, and invariably find ourselves having less of it than the opposition - an approach which isn't going to get us very far (like it didn't last year, or the year before that, when we also went to Anfield and won).

We finished last year with only one side having less possession than we did - Crystal Palace.

I don't think it is nay-saying or doom mongering to suggest that we might want to improve that sort of statistic (which in turn, might help us get more people to attend our matches).

Exactly it's not just a results issue, it's also an entertainment issue. If the club want to get fans back to home games there needs to be entertainment on the pitch. We've tried our current tactics at home for years and it clearly hasn't worked on a consistent basis, hence why our record is so poor.

[saunders_heroes]

For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

I didn't see the Stoke game, but against Hull we went 2-0 then sat back second half and let Hull have all the possession and they nearly got something out of the game. Against Liverpool we played well first half but in the second we barely crossed the half way line.
Are you happy with our style of football both home and away?

[Jimbo]

If Clark takes his chance agaisnt Arsenal and Richarson against Man City, then who knows. Small margins in these games.

To resuscitate that disagreement you were having with Jimbo - you could say "well, if Coutinho hadn't hit the post..." surely?

These things happen, both in our favour and against us, over the course of a season.

In football matches things happen which could quite easily have gone the other way. Such an incident can be good for one side, and not so good for the other. Some people call the phenomenon 'luck', but luck doesn't really exist. Neither does God, but I still say things like "God, we were lucky that Coutinho shot hit the post." etc.

[silhillvilla]

We'd probably be quite good in Europe away from home with a full strength side.

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For clarification, are we calling our wins against Stoke, Hull and Liverpool smash and grab? As I would say that is a pretty inaccurate description of all three games.

I didn't see the Stoke game, but against Hull we went 2-0 then sat back second half and let Hull have all the possession and they nearly got something out of the game. Against Liverpool we played well first half but in the second we barely crossed the half way line.
Are you happy with our style of football both home and away?

Brady gave Hull a bit of dynamism when he came on, but beyond the own goal, they had one opportunity and it would have been unfair on the balance of the game for them to have got anything. They deserved a sounder beating than they got. I enjoyed how we played and felt that not getting beat by Newcastle at home really exorcised a mental daemon for us.

At Stoke we contained them completely and really should have scored two more. Gabby literally missed an open goal and Bacuna skied one from six or 7 yards with ten minutes to go. Both that and the Liverpool game were pretty similar, us containing them defensively with us exerting a great deal of control- these were not the footballing equivalents of Rourkes Drift, and spurning better chances. We could have scored more at both Stoke and Liverpool with the gilt edged chances, but nevertheless I was impressed by what good away performances they were. Especially at Stoke, where our records isn't very good.

Against Arsenal, I felt we took the game to them, could have been in front when we were hit hard by a few quick goals in succession. We lack the fitness and physical strength to press the issue due to the virus. Chelsea had far too much for us unfortunately, despite some eye pleasing moves through the midfield. I have spoken a lot about the Man City game on that particular thread.

[supertom]

The possession thing doesn't bother me half as much as the all too few chances we're creating. That's one thing that must significantly improve and probably will with Benteke back. But improving our ball retention should result in us creating a bit more.

[PaulWinch again]

The possession thing doesn't bother me half as much as the all too few chances we're creating. That's one thing that must significantly improve and probably will with Benteke back. But improving our ball retention should result in us creating a bit more.

The lack of chances and lack of possession are linked though, even when Benteke was in the side we still didn't create an awful lot. I agree it's not just having more of the ball, you need to know what to do with it. But if we get more comfortable with keeping the ball it's a start.

[supertom]

The possession thing doesn't bother me half as much as the all too few chances we're creating. That's one thing that must significantly improve and probably will with Benteke back. But improving our ball retention should result in us creating a bit more.

The lack of chances and lack of possession are linked though, even when Benteke was in the side we still didn't create an awful lot. I agree it's not just having more of the ball, you need to know what to do with it. But if we get more comfortable with keeping the ball it's a start.

Certainly the haplessly giving it away so often has to change. You can keep the ball brilliantly and still end up with 30% of the ball against a side like Arsenal. But a lack of movement, misplacing simple passes, or our bloody throw-ins always going to the opposition are all avoidable.

[PeterWithesShin]

I've been to VP 4 times this season, including Parma, and haven't seen us score yet. You'll be glad to know I currently don't have a ticket for either Spurs or Saints.