Aay up, ecky thump, it's Le Tour 2014

[Dave Cooper please]

Actually (look it up if you like), Froome's time on Ventoux was about four minutes down on the likes of Pantani, and while it was on a par with Armstrong (who was never a brilliant climber until he started doping) you could, if you weren't so bloody suspicious, say that training techniques etc. have advanced in the ten years since Armstrong's peak. It's well known that Sky have pioneered many new training regimes that the other teams have had to follow to keep up.

It's a bit like saying that Usain Bolt has to be on drugs because his times are so much faster than Astafa Powell in 2005.

[Jon Crofts]

I'd be very surprised if Froome was doping, although I do get the suspicions re his differing stories, Nibali on the other hand does raise my suspicions and being tested negative just means you're not getting caught in many cases (Read George Hincapie's excellent The Loyal Lieutenant)

[taylorsworkrate]

Nothing that Nibali has done in this years tour has been remarkable. He would have expected at the start to have been miles ahead of Pinot, Van Garderen, etc. It looks remarkable only because Froome and Contador retired from the race.

Brailsford and Sky have gone out of their way to become the anti-doping team. They've invited journalists to follow the team and document everything they do. As Plumbutt say's, Armstrong wasn't a great climber pre cheating, so it's entirely reasonable to assume that a doped Armstrong and a clean Froome would have similar mountain times.

[Jon Crofts]

Nothing that Nibali has done in this years tour has been remarkable.

Stage 18, Pau - Hautacam should raise suspicions.

[taylorsworkrate]

Nothing that Nibali has done in this years tour has been remarkable.

Stage 18, Pau - Hautacam should raise suspicions.

He was against no one though. Had he riden away from Froome and Contador in that manner then that would be suspicious.

[SteveN]

To my mind Nibali and Froome and Wiggins before him won due to the new training regimes, diets etc that have been introduced since the Armstrong era and bloody hard work.

No other sport that I'm aware of gets as much attention to doping that cycling does.  There are still a few who dope, and they get found out and banned.

To those doubters do you  think Nadal, Federer, the Brownlee brothers, Usain Bolt and others at the top of their sport can only compete at the level they do, with the strength and stamina required, with the help of illegal stimulants/drugs?

[Jon Crofts]

There's no doubting the hard work elite athletes put in and the advances in diets and training methodology, techniques and equipment, but at the end of the day if 10% can be gained through illegal means then there will always be those who supplement hard work with a few 'additives'. 

The sad fact is, they rarely get caught due to the way testing is performed and the Athlete Biological Passport remains flawed and still cannot detect steroid based doping.

[Dave Cooper please]

Jon, I think you are being very skeptical. Why can't you just enjoy these achievements until they are proved to be achieved via cheating? As SteveN says, there are loads of athletes who are outstanding in their field, they aren't all doping.

Personally I enjoyed Armstrong's first couple of TDF wins, it was a fantastic story, but then the rumours started, and then the smokescreen came up which gave the rumours (in my opinion) credence. Until someone comes up with credible evidence that Froome or Nibali are doping I'm happy to enjoy their success, the same with Bolt or the Brownlee brothers or Messi or anyone else who is so superior to their peers.

 

[Jon Crofts]

I'm a cynical, skeptical bastard me.

[SteveN]

I'm a cynical, skeptical bastard me.

At my age one of the pleasures of life is watching top class sportsmen at the peak of their abilities as I no longer can dream of doing it myself.  I'm not sure I could enjoy watchingwith your approach!

I'm with PC, I will just enjoy watching them and acknowledge their achievements until they are proved to be cheating.

[Brazilian Villain]

ESPN / BT are showing the 30for30 doc on Hinault and Lemond a few times over the next few days.

I watched it and thought it was excellent as are most of the 30 for 30 docs I've seen. The Two Escobars, Pony Excess and the one about Jimmy V and NC State are still my favourites though.

[aj2k77]

Actually (look it up if you like), Froome's time on Ventoux was about four minutes down on the likes of Pantani, and while it was on a par with Armstrong (who was never a brilliant climber until he started doping) you could, if you weren't so bloody suspicious, say that training techniques etc. have advanced in the ten years since Armstrong's peak. It's well known that Sky have pioneered many new training regimes that the other teams have had to follow to keep up.

It's a bit like saying that Usain Bolt has to be on drugs because his times are so much faster than Astafa Powell in 2005.

Have to disagree mate, Pantanis time that is super quick was set in an ITT. So are nearly all the top 20 times. The times I gave you are the fastest road race stage times, of which Froome is right up there with the fastest dopers.

As for Bolt. Jamaica hardly have a good record regarding doping lately. He's also a freak of nature and has been since a teenager. What was Froomes past record? Did he show signs of being a potential freak?

[aj2k77]

Actually (look it up if you like), Froome's time on Ventoux was about four minutes down on the likes of Pantani, and while it was on a par with Armstrong (who was never a brilliant climber until he started doping) you could, if you weren't so bloody suspicious, say that training techniques etc. have advanced in the ten years since Armstrong's peak. It's well known that Sky have pioneered many new training regimes that the other teams have had to follow to keep up.

It's a bit like saying that Usain Bolt has to be on drugs because his times are so much faster than Astafa Powell in 2005.

On another note, what new training regimes did SKY implement?

[aj2k77]

The sad thing is I used to bloody love cycling.

[Jon Crofts]

Actually (look it up if you like), Froome's time on Ventoux was about four minutes down on the likes of Pantani, and while it was on a par with Armstrong (who was never a brilliant climber until he started doping) you could, if you weren't so bloody suspicious, say that training techniques etc. have advanced in the ten years since Armstrong's peak. It's well known that Sky have pioneered many new training regimes that the other teams have had to follow to keep up.

It's a bit like saying that Usain Bolt has to be on drugs because his times are so much faster than Astafa Powell in 2005.

On another note, what new training regimes did SKY implement?

The 'push harder on the pedals for longer' regime.