The Takeover Thread - Recon Group - NOW WITH NEW POLL

[Dave Javu]

I thought Lotus was running big losses. Seems a bit Philip Greenish to run down its bank reserves to me?

[old man villa fan]

So who is the owner? Is it our Tone? In which case can we ask where he got his dough from? Is it Recon, in which can we take a peek at some accounts? (clue:There aren't any) Will we really ever know who the owner(s) of Villa truly are? No, because we're being bought from a secretive jurisdiction. So just who will the test apply to and will it be the right person they are checking?

It was reported on Caixin.com

Recon Chairman Xia Jiantong, whose company's five subsidiaries do business in a variety of fields from monosodium glutamate production to IT services to alternative energy autos, said the deal was a bargain.

"Seventy-five million pounds is not a big investment," Xia told Caixin.

To raise the cash, Xia said, privately held Recon tapped the bank accounts of two subsidiaries: Shanghai-listed Lotus Health Industry Holding Group, and Shenzhen-listed Teamax Smart City Technology Corp. Ltd

Teamax Smart City Technology Corp. Ltd was sold to Softto for just under £7m back in early April.

Hasn't he recently sold his interest in another company for 400-500m (not sure if it was US$ or £).

[old man villa fan]

I thought Lotus was running big losses. Seems a bit Philip Greenish to run down its bank reserves to me?

Many of these companies will be holding shares in other companies.  With a slowing of the economy in China, the share values may have gone down and therefore on paper, the company could have lost money but their core business (e.g. making MSG) still making money.

[Steve R]

This is just gnawing away at me. I've stayed up too late looking at stuff about Reading FC and the involvement of Samuelson and Hitchens in the 2012 takeover.

Apologies if any of this has been covered before. I haven't kept up with this thread too much over the past few days.

First observation: The so-called "fit and proper" test took four months to complete at Reading, so good luck with June 15th.

"The requirements for owners and directors of clubs, formerly known as the "fit and proper person test", are that anybody on the board or owning more than 30% of a club must not have unspent criminal convictions for dishonesty, be bankrupt or have been involved in the insolvency of two football clubs since 2004. Both leagues now also require proof that the money is there, as committed, to buy the club, and to see a business plan which shows the club will be able to remain solvent and fulfil its fixtures for the season ahead. Both leagues now employ corporate intelligence companies to gather information, mostly from public sources and press coverage, about prospective owners. The Premier League also makes inquiries of the Home Office and Foreign Office to ask whether the government has relevant information about prospective owners." (Guardian, David Conn 2012)

So who is the owner? Is it our Tone? In which case can we ask where he got his dough from? Is it Recon, in which can we take a peek at some accounts? (clue:There aren't any) Will we really ever know who the owner(s) of Villa truly are? No, because we're being bought from a secretive jurisdiction. So just who will the test apply to and will it be the right person they are checking?
...

That's a more comprehensive description of the O&D test than appears on the Leagues' websites. I hope they do look into the provenance of the  cash, not to mention the propriety of the individuals concerned - assuming that the rules do go beyond a simple count of convictions and financial misdemeanours.

This deal really is starting to walk like a duck and quack like a duck.

From what I read, it ended at Reading with the frontman - the Russian chap - simply disappearing, leaving a number of debts, including a significant one to the Inland Revenue. Whatever is true of Tony Xia, there is nothing stopping him disappearing just as quickly as he appeared.

One of the many things I don't understand is what Samuelson gets out of all this, a director's salary alone doesn't seems that much for the circles he moves in. Moreover, I don't see why Xiai - if he has his own finance - needs Samuelson in the first place.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

From the same article, I hadn't read this before..

American billionaire Randy Lerner, who bought Aston Villa in 2006 for 62.2 million pounds, put the club up for sale in 2014. Six companies showed interest, Xia said, but the final competing bidders were Recon and the American software company Oracle Corp.

Lerner eventually chose to sell to Recon in part because China provides a large fan base for English soccer teams, Xia said.

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I don't think it's taken that long in relation to other takeovers. Swansea have just completed following commencement in April for example. Our relegation and the need for investigation by two league bodies will have elongated matters, including an issue that we aren't actually a Football League side yet.

I don't think it's wrong to question and probe, but we are doing so with limited knowledge of the process and extrapolating disasters from elsewhere to fill the vacuum and then getting worried about it, is not the same as asking considered questions.

[mr underhill]

if the Oracle thing is true, I can't help but think Randy backed the wrong horse

[old man villa fan]

This deal really is starting to walk like a duck and quack like a duck.

From what I read, it ended at Reading with the frontman - the Russian chap - simply disappearing, leaving a number of debts, including a significant one to the Inland Revenue. Whatever is true of Tony Xia, there is nothing stopping him disappearing just as quickly as he appeared.

One of the many things I don't understand is what Samuelson gets out of all this, a director's salary alone doesn't seems that much for the circles he moves in. Moreover, I don't see why Xiai - if he has his own finance - needs Samuelson in the first place.

Has any more information come out since the start that has made it any more dubious than it was from day one.  All the 'players' seem to be the same.  Quoted funding seems to be the same.  Xia's background seems to be the same.  If anything, I would say that the more information that has come out and actual actions have made it seem less dubious.  I use the word dubious not to reflect my viewpoint but for the more sceptical.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I don't think it's wrong to question and probe, but we are doing so with limited knowledge of the process and extrapolating disasters from elsewhere to fill the vacuum and then getting worried about it, is not the same as asking considered questions.

Here are 4 'considered questions' from Reading supporters regarding Samuelson, Jamie Banfill (the x2) and Alan Hitchins. The final paragraph could easily relate to us as it did to them.

http://twohundredpercent.net/the-elephant-in-the-madstad-boardroom/

[Jimbo]

if the Oracle thing is true, I can't help but think Randy backed the wrong horse

If the Oracle thing is true, it'll mean Randy turned down a bloke with a plastic face for a bloke with plastic shoes.

[Percy McCarthy]

From the same article, I hadn't read this before..

American billionaire Randy Lerner, who bought Aston Villa in 2006 for 62.2 million pounds, put the club up for sale in 2014. Six companies showed interest, Xia said, but the final competing bidders were Recon and the American software company Oracle Corp.

Lerner eventually chose to sell to Recon in part because China provides a large fan base for English soccer teams, Xia said.

Jesus. I wonder who else Randy interviewed when he employed McLeish. Guardiola?

[robbo1874]

Hitchins has been terminated as a Director according to Companies House.

non-filing of accounts, per chance?

[Hookeysmith]

As I suggested recently (and got shouted down) The club with all its feelers out surely can understand the concerns being raised and the delays in the take over.

Good signs

The appointing of an exciting and fresh new football management set up
Now getting 100% ITK about player purchases

Worrying signs

Long delay between announcement of sale and authorisation - causing concerns to grow and grow
Xia seemingly surrounding himself with some "tainted" individuals
No formal announcement of Wyness as Chairman - yet listed already as a director?
Hollis has seemingly "disappeared"
Xia empire being as transparent as a brick wall

We really could do with a simple "Its ok all going to plan" message so we can wind out collective necks in and stop worrying

[passitsideways]

As someone who has no idea about how these things work, are there any particular reasons apart from PR/transparency for providing public updates of the takeover process? I mean, of course it would be nice to receive reassurance in a public way, but that part doesn't seem like an absolutely huge thing.

[Steve R]

This deal really is starting to walk like a duck and quack like a duck.

From what I read, it ended at Reading with the frontman - the Russian chap - simply disappearing, leaving a number of debts, including a significant one to the Inland Revenue. Whatever is true of Tony Xia, there is nothing stopping him disappearing just as quickly as he appeared.

One of the many things I don't understand is what Samuelson gets out of all this, a director's salary alone doesn't seems that much for the circles he moves in. Moreover, I don't see why Xiai - if he has his own finance - needs Samuelson in the first place.

Has any more information come out since the start that has made it any more dubious than it was from day one.  All the 'players' seem to be the same.  Quoted funding seems to be the same.  Xia's background seems to be the same.  If anything, I would say that the more information that has come out and actual actions have made it seem less dubious.  I use the word dubious not to reflect my viewpoint but for the more sceptical.

You may well have been totally familiar is Samuelson and co - and their involvement with Xia- all along. I was not. Day one it was just Xia, the involvement of others didn't become apparent until the pictures with the shirts appeared on the OS. Since then, the more I read or see posted on here the worse it sounds.

You may be comfortable with it all, that is fine. I am not, and that is not scepticism as such, just a different perspective to the one you have.