The Takeover Thread - Recon Group - NOW WITH NEW POLL

[Russ aka Big Nose]

Yep, I wouldn't want to be owned by Abramovitch either. I want us to be successful as a football team, but it'll always be more important to me that the actual club not necessarily be on the side of evil. Randy may be many things, but he's not Abramovitch (or a Sheikh who throws his political opponents into jail then throws their lawyers in after them, for the crime of representing a client in law - not a nice guy).

Monty/CyprusVillain - I might agree with you and I'm not defending either Tevfik Arif or Abrahmovich.

I simply suggested:
1. that we don't know much/enough about Arif to say at this stage he is not someone we want as the new owner

2. that we will all have a different tolerance level about the background/past record of the new owners (whoever they might be) and that many - perhaps most - fans will be less sensitive than those on here if investment is made, and the greater that investment, the more people might 'look away' from any unpleasant history - I don't agree with that, it is just a fact of life

3. I repeat - 6 to 8 interested parties, if true, is good news and more reassuring than what we knew yesterday

4. If Arif is one of the interested parties, the suggestion that he is a front runner may be something suggested by his own people so that he might be taken more seriously. If someone was genuinely the front runner, I'm not sure there is much to be gained by them making that fact known.

It could be that through investigation/contacts someone at the Independent has found out without it being intentionally leaked, but if that is the case then I would suggest that they would normally have more detail to offer and other journalists/sources would also be reporting the same thing and digging for more (none of which appears to be the case so far)

5. I repeat - in my view too early to panic

[Monty]

For 1. you are right, but the alarm bells, as Cyprus Villan put it, are ringing quite loudly; 2. that's sad, but that's their opinion not ours, so who gives a shit?; 3. if true, that is absolutely more pleasing than yesterday's buyer-vacuum was; 4. interesting thought, but I'm not sure how it would do him any good to lie about being the front-runner either; and 5. well, obviously, it's always too early to panic, panicking is never a good move - just taking the report at face value does create a little ripple of concern not easily stilled.

[dave.woodhall]

Imagine, just imagine that season ticket sales were well down on previous seasons and imagine if today was a deadline for 9 month season ticket payment plans. 

I wonder what could possibly be used to boost sales.

A bit more than a speculative link to a shady character.

[SashasGrandad]

For 1. you are right, but the alarm bells, as Cyprus Villan put it, are ringing quite loudly; 2. that's sad, but that's their opinion not ours, so who gives a shit?; 3. if true, that is absolutely more pleasing than yesterday's buyer-vacuum was; 4. interesting thought, but I'm not sure how it would do him any good to lie about being the front-runner either; and 5. well, obviously, it's always too early to panic, panicking is never a good move - just taking the report at face value does create a little ripple of concern not easily stilled.

Will TBAR become TABAR?

[CyprusVillain]

Yep, I wouldn't want to be owned by Abramovitch either. I want us to be successful as a football team, but it'll always be more important to me that the actual club not necessarily be on the side of evil. Randy may be many things, but he's not Abramovitch (or a Sheikh who throws his political opponents into jail then throws their lawyers in after them, for the crime of representing a client in law - not a nice guy).

Monty/CyprusVillain - I might agree with you and I'm not defending either Tevfik Arif or Abrahmovich.

I simply suggested:
1. that we don't know much/enough about Arif to say at this stage he is not someone we want as the new owner

2. that we will all have a different tolerance level about the background/past record of the new owners (whoever they might be) and that many - perhaps most - fans will be less sensitive than those on here if investment is made, and the greater that investment, the more people might 'look away' from any unpleasant history - I don't agree with that, it is just a fact of life

3. I repeat - 6 to 8 interested parties, if true, is good news and more reassuring than what we knew yesterday

4. If Arif is one of the interested parties, the suggestion that he is a front runner may be something suggested by his own people so that he might be taken more seriously. If someone was genuinely the front runner, I'm not sure there is much to be gained by them making that fact known.

It could be that through investigation/contacts someone at the Independent has found out without it being intentionally leaked, but if that is the case then I would suggest that they would normally have more detail to offer and other journalists/sources would also be reporting the same thing and digging for more (none of which appears to be the case so far)

5. I repeat - in my view too early to panic

A reasoned and reasonable reply Russ.

Of course this guy is apparently only one of a number of potentail buyers. And we should always treat media reports with a degree of caution since they can be the outcome of a range of 'behind the scenes' moves which we are not party to.

However, I stumbled on this H&V thread about 30 mins ago whilst I was writing up a piece of academic research on illicit capital flight between Cyprus and and eastern/Cenral Europe (including Kazakhstan). Over the past couple of years I have assembled profiles of the owners of this illict capital and the Cypriot facilitators who hide this money in the secrecy juristiction known as Cyprus. (A favourate location for Abramovich to secrete his money in opaque trusts by the way).

All I can say is, as a spontanious response to being introduced to our friend - Mr Arif, that there are aspects of his conduct which shine through even on a cursory examination of publically available information. He appears to conform to a common profile of a businessmen who have profited from deeply dubious activities. The lack of transparent ownership structures as this relates to his assets and the location and nature of his transnational business concerns etc, etc are red flags for me. 

This makes me very wary of him as a potential custodian of AV.

[Monty]

The most suspicious thing about Arif is that nowhere can I find even an estimation of his net worth. Nobody has any idea. I wonder if that might have something to do with declared income?

Oh, that and following Cyprus Villan's advice by googling Bayrock and Jody Kriss. Donald Trump's Anatolian stooge? Christ alive, no thanks.

[CyprusVillain]

The more you poke around the more dubious this all becomes;

"Neymar-Investing Hedge Fund Doyen Said Backed by Kazakh Family
By Alex Duff July 02, 2013
     
A property developer and luxury hotel chain owner are among a small group of investment partners in Doyen Capital LLP, which has made bets on the career of soccer stars Neymar and Radamel Falcao, two people who have worked with the hedge fund said.

The families of Tevfik Arif, founder of Bayrock Group LLC, and Fettah Tamince, chief executive officer of Rixos Hotels, are investing in soccer, energy trading and other areas through Doyen, said the people, who weren’t authorized to speak publicly about the subject. The fund’s managers include Arif’s son, according to one of the people.

Doyen is one of the largest funds making deals with cash-strapped soccer teams for a share in the future transfer fees of players. The sport’s European ruling body, UEFA, wants to ban the practice, citing concerns that it may interfere in the $3 billion transfer market. The funds have sought to remain low-profile in the world’s most popular sport, according to Sandalio Gomez, a professor at IESE business school in Madrid who teaches soccer executives.

“The investors don’t want to get into a controversy that will mess up their investment,” Gomez said.

London-based Doyen is also betting on players’ image rights, and in May agreed to manage Neymar’s advertising deals outside Brazil. The fund guaranteed a minimum amount to Neymar, who joined Spain’s Barcelona from Santos that month. It will also share income it generates for him, in common with athlete representation agencies like IMG Worldwide Inc., one of the people said. Neymar scored in Brazil’s 3-0 win against Spain in the Confederations Cup final last weekend.

Yacht Arrest

Kazakhstan’s Arif didn’t respond to an e-mail with questions about his involvement in the fund. He helped develop the 46-story Trump Soho hotel and condominium in Manhattan with Donald Trump and the Sapir Organization. Arif was acquitted after being arrested on a yacht in 2010 by Turkish police investigating a prostitution ring.

Rixos spokeswoman Begum Guven declined to make Tamince, of Turkey, available for interview.

In the player trading market, the hedge fund buys a stake in an athlete’s transfer rights via Malta-based Doyen Sports Investments and shares any fee when he is traded. Soccer ruling body FIFA is reviewing the investment model, which began in South America in the 1990s.

Fans are suspicious of such funds because they bring “ultra capitalism” to the sport, said Jose Maria Gay, a professor at Barcelona University who has written reports on soccer finance for Nyon, Switzerland-based UEFA. The practice is banned in the English Premier League.

‘No Pistol’

Nelio Lucas, a Doyen executive, told a seminar in Madrid in March that the fund has allowed some soccer clubs to “survive in their day-to-day business” by providing finance at a time when Spanish banks have shut off lending. He says Doyen doesn’t have any influence on whether clubs trade players, contrary to what UEFA says.

“There’s no pistol on the table,” Lucas said.

Lucas and Simon Oliveira, another Doyen executive, declined to say who the fund’s investors are.

In December 2011, Doyen provided a one-year loan to Atletico Madrid that would have paid out a share of any transfer fee if Falcao was traded during the period, one of the people said. The loan matured before the 27-year-old Colombian striker moved to Monaco on May 31, the person said.

Doyen has also acquired stakes in the transfer rights of midfielder Geoffrey Kondogbia, 20, and defender Eliaquim Mangala, 22, according to their clubs, Sevilla and Porto. Both have represented France’s national team at youth level. Mangala is a possible target for Premier League team Chelsea, L’Equipe newspaper reported June 25, a day after the Evening Standard said that Kondogbia could join the London club owned by billionaire Roman Abramovich.

Chelsea spokesman Steve Atkins didn’t immediately return a call and e-mail seeking comment on the newspaper reports."

From Bloomberg News - July 02, 2013

[Steve R]

Another thing against him, he's ORANGE.

Does he look like a golfer? It's bugging me, but I keep going back to golfer.

Olazabal?

Colin Montgomery.

We shouldn't be too disparaging about what a person spends 10k a night on. That must be about what we currently pay Darren Bent to do bugger all.

[DeKuip]

If Tango Man does, by some cruel sick joke being played by Randy and the Premier League, become the queen of our club then if I was Ciaran Clark I'd be asking for a new shirt number pretty sharpish!

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2013/05/13/17780.shtml

[Russ aka Big Nose]

For 1. you are right, but the alarm bells, as Cyprus Villan put it, are ringing quite loudly; 2. that's sad, but that's their opinion not ours, so who gives a shit?; 3. if true, that is absolutely more pleasing than yesterday's buyer-vacuum was; 4. interesting thought, but I'm not sure how it would do him any good to lie about being the front-runner either; and 5. well, obviously, it's always too early to panic, panicking is never a good move - just taking the report at face value does create a little ripple of concern not easily stilled.

Hi Monty. Re 4 - I'm not enormously familiar with the detail of how potential investors 'jockey' for position in the pursuit of a target acquisition, but from what I understand from being involved in the communication of a few deals is:

- management of communication (formal statements and intentional leaks) is key

- a genuine front runner of scale and stature has (potentially) something to gain by being identified as it might prompt others to withdraw, e.g. credible reports that Bill Gates is in for Villa and other suitors think what's the point in bothering (then the people managing the sale might have to fuel speculation other potential bidders to support the eventual sale price)

- if a genuine front runner does not have scale and stature, they might be more inclined to not be identified - they are not likely to scare anyone off, and if identified someone else (someone with deeper pockets) could pick them off and replace them

- if someone is down the pecking order of potential suitors, then tipping off a journalist might lead people to believe their status a possible/probable contender is more credible than it is - and it might mean other contenders, who are keen on remaining in the background, lose interest if they feel they might be identified before they are ready or before a deal is done

- or, a journalist does their job and unearths a story - it can happen!

All entirely speculative and I might just be trying to convince myself that Arif is not genuinely a front runner. Cheers.

[pauliewalnuts]

I simply suggested:
1. that we don't know much/enough about Arif to say at this stage he is not someone we want as the new owner

That's the bit I'd disagree with.

I know it's all highly subjective, but a brief googling has shown me all I need to know that he's not someone I'd like as our owner.

[john2710]

Abramovic used the purchase of Chelsea to move to the UK, raise his profile & to seemingly legitimise his business activities at a time when many of his associates were being arrested / sent to Siberia. A highly dubious character but aren't most self made men? I doubt many Chelsea fans are too concerned about where the money comes from. Who had heard about him before he dragged Chelsea out of the shit?

This guy sounds equally dubious.

I can image Falcao being persuaded to sign for Monaco whether he wanted to or not.

[mike]

I simply suggested:
1. that we don't know much/enough about Arif to say at this stage he is not someone we want as the new owner

That's the bit I'd disagree with.

I know it's all highly subjective, but a brief googling has shown me all I need to know that he's not someone I'd like as our owner.

If he was looking at buying SHA, we'd be pissing ourselves.

[Breezeblock]

Abramovic used the purchase of Chelsea to move to the UK, raise his profile & to seemingly legitimise his business activities at a time when many of his associates were being arrested / sent to Siberia. A highly dubious character but aren't most self made men? I doubt many Chelsea fans are too concerned about where the money comes from. Who had heard about him before he dragged Chelsea out of the shit?

This guy sounds equally dubious.

I can image Falcao being persuaded to sign for Monaco whether he wanted to or not.

http://youtu.be/zc76G3-TNUE


Edit - something wrong with the Youtube button - getting invalid Youtube links

It's the URL you are trying to use that is at fault:

[pauliewalnuts]

I simply suggested:
1. that we don't know much/enough about Arif to say at this stage he is not someone we want as the new owner

That's the bit I'd disagree with.

I know it's all highly subjective, but a brief googling has shown me all I need to know that he's not someone I'd like as our owner.

If he was looking at buying SHA, we'd be pissing ourselves.

I think the main thing is not to fall into a trap of thinking "anyone but Randy" is necessarily going to be "better than Randy".