Lerner/Lambert v Ellis/O'Leary

[KevinGage]

I don't disagree entirely Chris. Believe me I'm massively torn on not wanting to see much more of this under Lambert and giving him the proper tools and resources to push us forward properly. I realise he's agreed to work within the parameters set by the club and done what they have asked of him, which in itself creates mutual loyalty. But at the same time there needs to be some tangible evidence of improvement even if it is marginal due to the resources provided. I think that's where the problem lies. I get the limitations. I get the argument to carry this on, but I'm not seeing on a consistent basis any tangible improvement. Bright spots for sure. Injuries haven't helped, but there should have been a bit more. Now, it might come together on Saturday and the other 5 games. We'll see I suppose. I'm just struggling with this a little and the idea of him staying longer.

I do get some of that.

He'll always get leeway because of the wage bill constraints he's had to work under. If he leaves this summer, I reckon the press will be pretty sympathetic to him. 

But regardless of that, two years into the job there should be a clear pattern of play and footballing philosophy on display.  Pretty much any coach/ manager who has two years at any football club should be capable of that.

We have looked like a disjointed rabble way to often this year.  I don't think we are suddenly going to see a rapid transformation in year three, even with two or three signings in the £7 million plus category.

[Concrete John]

I don't disagree entirely Chris. Believe me I'm massively torn on not wanting to see much more of this under Lambert and giving him the proper tools and resources to push us forward properly. I realise he's agreed to work within the parameters set by the club and done what they have asked of him, which in itself creates mutual loyalty. But at the same time there needs to be some tangible evidence of improvement even if it is marginal due to the resources provided. I think that's where the problem lies. I get the limitations. I get the argument to carry this on, but I'm not seeing on a consistent basis any tangible improvement. Bright spots for sure. Injuries haven't helped, but there should have been a bit more. Now, it might come together on Saturday and the other 5 games. We'll see I suppose. I'm just struggling with this a little and the idea of him staying longer.

I do get some of that.

He'll always get leeway because of the wage bill constraints he's had to work under. If he leaves this summer, I reckon the press will be pretty sympathetic to him. 

But regardless of that, two years into the job there should be a clear pattern of play and footballing philosophy on display.  Pretty much any coach/ manager who has two years at any football club should be capable of that.
We have looked like a disjointed rabble way to often this year.  I don't think we are suddenly going to see a rapid transformation in year three, even with two or three signings in the £7 million plus category.

That's the bit where I think criticism of him is fair.  I don't think league position and overall results are a million miles from where we would realistically expect them to be, given the rebuilding job he had to undertake.  However, the great inconsistencies we've seen says to me that he's failed to really stamp his own identity on to the side in terms of how we play.  I would add the proviso that we don't know for certain they always play exactly to his instruction and better players may allow this to happen more, but we're still were we are right now, which is not really knowing what his Villa side would look like if we get that much needed uplift in quality.

[Gregorys Boy]

Think I would split them and maybe have Lerner and O'Leary.  I do think the running of the club has been better under Lerner, and while he has faults I do like how he has bought into the history of the club, and been very supportive of whoever the manager is, not letting his ego get in the way like Deadly Doug.

Lambert is still gaining experience and certainly did a good job at Norwich, so overtime I can see him becoming a much better manager than O'Dreary who history shows was very lucky at Leeds and has done nothing since.  At least he did have a good first season, and made some solid signings.  I am starting to wonder if Lambert is cut out for the Villa post after all.

[Isa]

I'm sorry but without trying to put him on a pedestal, O'Leary was way better than Lambert.   

[Toronto Villa]

I'm sorry but without trying to put him on a pedestal, O'Leary was way better than Lambert.   

but he was a wanker who publicly belittled us as fans and treated us with contempt. It trumps any qualities he has a man and manager, and puts him below any other current or former Villa manager.

[Isa]

I'm sorry but without trying to put him on a pedestal, O'Leary was way better than Lambert.   

but he was a wanker who publicly belittled us as fans and treated us with contempt. It trumps any qualities he has a man and manager, and puts him below any other current or former Villa manager.

For you maybe. I rank our managers by managerial ability myself and Lambert easily finishes bottom of the list out of those I have known. Let's not act like Lambert treats the fans with respect either: regularly blaming us for the home-form, constant patronising bemoaning of how unrealistic we are just for daring to expect some sort of progression this season, complusively making bare-faced lies. Why people seem to think that he is some sort of likable character is beyond me.

[Toronto Villa]

when did he blame us for our home form? Yes, I think he's likeable. He's just not up to the job.

[Gregorys Boy]

I'm sorry but without trying to put him on a pedestal, O'Leary was way better than Lambert.   

I did say than Lambert would go on to be a better manager than O'Leary not than he is now to be fair. 

[Lucky Eddie]

Doug was far, far from perfect but at least he could be arsed to go to Swansea last Saturday.

[Havencheese]

Doug was far, far from perfect but at least he could be arsed to go to Swansea last Saturday.

It's a fair point given his age. When we consider he renamed a stand after himself when there's at least twenty individuals and a street/area more deserving, it's probably the least he can do.

[Clark W Griswold]

Doug was far, far from perfect but at least he could be arsed to go to Swansea last Saturday.

Doug was far, far from perfect but at least he was better than Lerner. Certainly in the time i've been supporting the club anyway. I didn't quite witness the 1987 debacle mind.

O Leary was definately a bigger twat than Lambert, but i think Lambert has proven to be the worse manager, for us anyway.

[Deano's Mullet]

O'Leary was a twat but a far better boss.
Doug would have sacked Lambert a long time ago.
Our squad in 05/06 was better than this team now.

[Fred]

I think it is unfair to compare and contrast the times we have now to what went on in 2006.

For all of Lerner's faults i do think he has acted with the best of intentions to the club, it is a real shame that it has not worked out for him and i suspect in a few years time people will view our current chairman in a diffrent light than they do know, just as Doug is being viewed in a diffrent light as times are so bad now.

As for Lambert well anything is better than DOL.

I think DOL was married to the Leeds job and when the divorce happened he picked us up on the rebound and always gave the impression we were doing him a favour by letting him manage the Villa.

McLeish had more dignity than DOL and he took a lot more abuse than DOL ever did.

[Big Dick Edwards]

I fucking hated O'Leary more than any other Villa manager in the last 40 years. I can hear him now, constantly referring to his babies at Leeds, his beloved Arsenal and how Villa were on a level with Charlton Athletic. He had no respect at all for our great club and was arrogant enough to think he didn't need to get the fans onside. Has he worked since he left us? Says something, don't you think? ******!!

[Richard E]

Doug was far, far from perfect but at least he could be arsed to go to Swansea last Saturday.

Mat Kendrick in the Meaning Evil some time this week said quite correctly that given the importance of the Hull game Randy ought to be there. I am not holding my breath that he will be!