Aston Villa v Stoke City post match thread

[olaftab]

And that's even before getting to his outbreaks of utter mentalness (5 up front against Bradford, for example).

We were nearly there today with  Benteke, Holt and Gabby upfront and Albrighton lurking about aimlessly behind them!

[olaftab]

Balaban and Jenas.

I honestly thought about them as well but remember Jenas making one telling pass before breaking down again and Bosko forced a save from a keeper once. Holt has had the ball bounce off him about a half a dozen times in all his time on the pitch!

[Hillbilly]

My reaction on waking up to see this result was the 'I'm not angry with you, I'm disappointed' line. A far more chilling feeling. A golden opportunity to nail survival and indulge in a stress-free end to the season totally missed.

[VicMackey]

And my reaction was 'typical bloody Villa'.  After goalfests around the country over the weekend I had thought that a scoreless draw was the most likely result but somehow failed to remember our uncanny ability to shit on our own heads.

[*shellac*]

A low after last week's high.

Hope is another high coming up.

[OzVilla]

My reaction was confirmation that last weeks performance was the blip and this weeks was normality.

It's all the more disappointing because I was looking forward to relaxing into the rest of the season safe in the knowledge we couldn't be dragged back into it. 

Now with Manure coming up that's now probably delayed further.

Another season where I'm wishing it could just end now - 4th in a row.  No wonder people are at the end of the tether with it all.

. 

 

[brian green]

Having slept a few hours on it we all knew that yesterday was going to be the big test.   The pro-Lambert faction and the anti-Lambert faction knew that following a good quarter of a game against Norwich and a very good game against Chelsea the game against Stoke was going to show whether we had finally turned the corner and could start to build a less disastrous future.   Stoke were the perfect opponents, tough, well disciplined and physical who would test us in every department in which we have showed such incompetence so many times in Lambert's tenure.   By any measure we failed that test.   We failed it so comprehensively that we got an early goal and still went to pieces.

Whichever way you cut it, whether you are violently pro Lambert and believe he has the vision and ability to at least take us to a position where every season is not a flirtation with relegation or whether you believe he is out of his depth and massively overrated, that Stoke game showed us and him for what we are.   He is a second class manager with second rate staff around him.   We have a second class squad who are poorly coached and poorly organized.   We are rapidly becoming a second class club on the pitch.

He will not be sacked because those who run the club firstly have a massive guilt complex at the whole way the MON tenure and departure and everything that has happened since has been handled and secondly a posture has been adopted by those who run the club which is basically denial that anything fundamental is wrong.   Having Paul Lambert as the manager fits their attitude of denial perfectly.   He pleases them by buying cheaply and paying low wages.   He occasionally gets lucky and finds a Benteke.   Occasionally the players do their own thing and play very well.  He uses the flashes of brilliance to promote the myth that we are a young team still in transition and gives assurances that it will all come good in the long run.   When all these shaky assumptions are put to the test they collapse just like they did against Stoke.

Because he is not Alex McLeish his faults are glossed over by the majority of the fans.   Because he is not Martin O'Neill his faults are glossed over by the board.  He is never going to be sacked in the foreseeable future so it is pointless to demand it or expect it.   He has secured his position by following the board's instructions to save money even to the point that players like Grant Holt are wearing Villa shirts.   The board in turn will be loyal to him and will allow him to stay even if we are relegated.   

That is what we the loyal fans are looking at, an absentee owner, an obdurate self-serving board, a manager whose principal quality is that he is not Alex McLeish and a squad of players put together on a low budget with little or no regard to whether they are better than the players we already have or needed at all, coached by Lambert's loyal staff who give every impression of total ineptitude.

The end game of all this is still some way off, maybe a season maybe two but when it comes it is going to be very nasty indeed.

[mike]

Spot on, Brian. We occasionally flatter to deceive but ultimately our home form remains dreadful. If Sunderland win one of their games in hand, we are a massive six points off the relegation places. I don't think we'll be relegated this year, there are more teams who seem eager to go this season. But I'm tired of the sum total of my ambition as a football supporter being to hope my team can stay up. Like Wigan, our luck will run out because, like Wigan, we buy cheaply and hope for the best.

I agree with you that the board don't seem to care, that statement they gave after sacking McLeish about Aston Villa aspiring to more than a relegation struggle just hot air. Lambert is cheap and does as he's told. In fact he makes a positive virtue of it. Buying from a pound shop is not prudent housekeeping, you just end up with a house full of broken tat.

The fans are tired of mismanagement by board downwards and I think there is a desperate wish for Lambert to come good. They say that one of the problems with social workers is that they get so personally involved in families that they don't always want to see how bad things are. There is a name for 'over optimistic because you don't want to see the truth' syndrome but I've forgotten what it is.

So, where we are is where we are. Just lost the Team of the Midlands derby to Stoke, a point above the mighty Hull and expect the same next year.

[eastie]

For what it's worth I can see what Damo was trying to say. There is a bit of inconsistency with some posters on here and that will always be the way I suppose. Whilst no-one was saying Lambert was the best manager in the world last week, no-one was calling for his head either. A week later they are. I presume that's what Damo was suggesting and if so, I agree with him.

Anyone last week calling for his head would look foolish after the Chelsea game and I prefer to praise when deserved and criticise when deserved .

That's exactly Damo's point (I think). You say he didn't deserve calls to be sacked last week but today he does? What happens if we beat Man Utd next week?

Beating Chelsea didn't mean he should keep his job but he rightly was praised along with the players -it was hardly the time or place for people to be calling for his head after that game but it didn't change most people's opinion of him .

The odd good performance is far outweighed by dreadful ones - last weekend was a rare chance to celebrate and be happy.

The calls for his head are not based on today's performance but his overall management record over the last 2 seasons.

[Walmley_Villa]

I still can't fathom the question that Grant Holt is supposed to be the answer to an along with Marc in the no10 role it was a very bizarre and disappointing afternoon. The back 4 had a shocker and Sylla played like the French second division player he is.

[eastie]

Brian Green - take a bow sir ,best post I have ever read on this forum !

[mr underhill]

but the really sad thing is this kind of total ineptitude only happens at Villa. At any other PL club management would see that virtually two full seasons in,the 'project' isn't working and take remedial action.  We not only tolerate incompetence, we  reward it. A fear grips Villa - not the fear of loss, which should act as a spur to achieve, but a fear predicated on not wishing to repeat the failings of the immediate past and believing continuity  is the best chance we can have of survival. I don't think it is with Lambert in charge who has demonstrated he hasn't got the wit, intelligence or imagination to work within the constraints he has to at least produce and organise a workmanlike side who don't humiliate themselves and their supporters on a depressingly regular basis, particularly at home. And I don't buy into him overseeing a reduction in the wage bill either. Apart from that tool Ireland we still have a few mega wage hogs on the books who don't look like departing until their contracts are up or we incentivize their exit to the next mug meal ticket club. And won't it be just our luck to see Shrek bag a treble.Apart from that , brilliant.

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

This match summed up us under Lambert.

In one game we looked a very good team for part of it and utterly useless in the majority. We went in with hope and confidence, and it was all blown with two stupid goals.

On this occasion, I have to say I lay complete blame with the players. We'd played well the last two home games and went into this game with great confidence. We started well and also played with confidence. What destroyed us was two moments of abysmal play by the players. This in turn drained the confidence out of the players, despite prior to that, and the previous two games, demonstrating we were clearly good enough to have the scoreline at the end of the match in our favour.

I don't get how they can play well and press opponents for only short periods in a match. It's bizarre. Can the players not see what happens when they work hard?

A few mentions regarding the players. Gabby is an awful football player (I would start Albrighton in his position next game). Nathan Baker is always going to be an accident waiting to happen. As for Sylla, I really can't believe he gets paid to play football. Oh, and more evidence that Bacuna isn't really a right-back, and Bertrand is not the player the majority of people seem to think he is.Bennett should've retained his position after his last performance.

Worst game of the season...so far.

on one hand Lambert has Bertrand who has not a bad game before today, on the other hand he has Bennett who's had 1 good game in the 18+ months since he's been here and should have been sent off in the 1 and only good game he's had.  Yeah you're right Lambert is stupid not to pick Bennett over Bertrand

Bertrand hasn't had a bad game? Really?!?!? I'd contest that greatly. I'd say he's had one very good game, some alright and a couple of poor ones.

[Mister E]

Like Wet Spam, Stoke came well prepared and with a clear gameplan: defend well, close down the Villa players and target our right back. They duly did this.

Defensively, all four of our defensive line yesterday were awful. All made significant individual errors. Stoke targeted Bacuna very successfully and he had a mare and I really don't get why Lambert has to continue playing the lad out of position and eschewing the benefits of a specialist right back in the form of Lowton.
Baker was true to form - sometimes reliable but with significant errors: why he would have attempted a backheel in front of his own goal and under pressure from an attacker is beyond me. Baker's decision-making is terrible, and I do not believe he is a Premiership player.
Vlaar had errors in him and Betrand was ineffectual.

The killer for me was the double substitution: bringing on Albrighton into central midfeld and having Sylla on the pitch at all were massive mistakes by Lambert. I said to those around me at the time that the obvious substitutions were to bring on Bennett into left MF in front of Bertrand and Albrighton on the right, ahead of Bacuna (who was getting caught out of position regularly): doing this would not have exposed Sylla as being completely out of his depth and given us both width and fullback protection.
And I found it bizarre that in the second half Delph spent more time behind Betratrand than ahead of him ...

I will probably not make any further use of my ST this season: partly, I have some other commitments; partly because it just ain't worth the effort.

Saddened.

[sid1964]

Yesterday was a shambles, no desire no fight

Bacuna was torn to shreds by there winger, he is not a full back
Gabby  - he has totally lost it, apart from a good 45 mins away at Liverpool - cant think of much else he has done recently, and to make matters worse there is a talk of a new contract for him!!!! WHY? apart from running quick (and he is not that quick anymore), what else does he offer to the team?
Super Mark - i am not a fan of his, for me he is a championship player at best, get rid in the summer.
Baker - for me he does not read the game that is why every tackle he makes is a desperate lunge at the ball or the man
Sylla - another Championship player
Betrand - lets hope that we dont waste any of our transfer budget on him

If Lambert is to stay he needs to get rid of a lot of players and bring in 3 - 4 quality premiership players