Relegation?

[dave.woodhall]

With such a poor football and such a clueless manager, it will be a miracle if we reach the safety.

I agree totally Archie. We will reach safety I think, it is a miracle given how crap we are that there are actually teams worse than us, and we won't continue with this sort of luck ad infinitum. Apologies in advance for any poor grammar

The grammar's fine.

[frank]

Archie (Stefano) is a very good friend, but we often disagree about Villa's prospects this season. What is alarming is our inconsistency. Let's not forget how buoyed up we were by two successive wins just three weeks ago. Since then we've had two poor performances and big defeats but that doesn't suddenly make us certainties for relegation. I don't agree that it will take a miracle for us to stay up and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that, even without Benteke, we will be virtually safe after the Palace game.

Safety doesn't, of course, mean that the season's been a success; far from it. We're not going to catch up Newcastle or Southampton, teams we expected to finish above at the beginning of the season. Everton and Spurs, with whom we might have competed in the league, are out of sight. Even Stoke and West Ham may finish higher than Villa. But personally I haven't (yet) given up on Lambert. I've been to almost every game this season and seen enough to believe that we have the basis of a successful side.

What does "successful" mean? In this league it means being "the best of the rest". We know that we can't compete with the oligarchs and the sheikhs but I think that Lambert should be given the opportunity to strengthen the side in the summer and to develop the potential that's undoubtedly there.

(By the way, Archie, your English is excellent, and a good deal better than that of your Prime Minister, who was in London this week)

[Archie]

Frank, I want to state in advance that I have nothing against Paul Lambert. Probably you will remember that when we were in Venice in the springtime of 2011, I told you that I would like him at Villa when he still was on the Norwich's books.
But I have to admit that I was wrong.

The reason why I am so depressed is that Paul Lambert is totally inept as far as tactics are concerned.
How can we play with only 2 midfileders and 4 forwards as we did at OT?
You can play 4-2-3-1 as long as you have two strong central midfielders.
Our midfield is too light to support even a 4-3-3, you do not need to be Einstein to understand this evident truth.

My problem is that, unlike you, Frank, I am acclimatised to see Italian football. Ok, it is much worse than English, it is slow and boring.
But  in one thing is superior.
In tactics.
That is the reason why Italy won 4 World Cups and England only one, even if English football is by far the best of the world.

The fact is that you can not under-rate the importance of tactics in football as you do in England.
It is not by chance that the English top teams do not have English managers.
It is because there are few good English managers. Ok, Lambert is Scottish, but he has always coached in England and he has the mentality of English managers. You have understood what I mean.

You can take every Italian team of first or even second division, and you will see that they all have a manager who has taken a licence to coach, and that has good tactical knowledges. A manager that has a gameplan.
Viceversa (that is an Italian word, by the way) Lambert seems not to know the ABC of football: first of all, that the play must be built from behind, that midfield is the engine of the team, and that you can arrive to the goal either through the work of the midfielders or the wingers, not through the keeper's long kicks, as Villa usually do.

I can assure to you that my local team, that struggles to avoid relegation in third division, plays much better than Villa did at Old Trafford or at home with Stoke.

This is inconceivable for me, and induces me to think that if we'll be safe it'll be a miracle. Infact it will be because we have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City, and because there are at least three teams worse than the squad that was battered by Manchester United, Stoke, and too many other average teams.
How can you call it if not a miracle?

[LeeB]

Archie, I believe Lambert is very well qualified to do his job, so I don't think it's fair to throw that at him.

[Ads]

Tactics didn't let us down at Old  Trafford two fundamentals did; positioning when it comes to defending and finishing.

This is inconceivable for me, and induces me to think that if we'll be safe it'll be a miracle. Infact it will be because we have beaten Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City, and because there are at least three teams worse than the squad that was battered by Manchester United, Stoke, and too many other average teams.
How can you call it if not a miracle?

I think you're describing a mid-table team. We just move from the sublime to the ridiculous and back again without too much inbetween. The league table this season would bear than out.

[passitsideways]

My problem is that, unlike you, Frank, I am acclimatised to see Italian football. Ok, it is much worse than English, it is slow and boring.
But  in one thing is superior.
In tactics.
That is the reason why Italy won 4 World Cups and England only one, even if English football is by far the best of the world.

I think messrs Meazza, Scirea, Tardelli, Zoff, Baresi, Cannavaro, Nesta, Pirlo, Totti, and several others would take exception to that comment.

[Archie]

Tactics didn't let us down at Old  Trafford two fundamentals did; positioning when it comes to defending and finishing.

You are certainly right, but I had included defenders positioning  and movements it in the concept of tactics. Anyhow, it is the manager that should teach these things to the players. . .

[Archie]

My problem is that, unlike you, Frank, I am acclimatised to see Italian football. Ok, it is much worse than English, it is slow and boring.
But  in one thing is superior.
In tactics.
That is the reason why Italy won 4 World Cups and England only one, even if English football is by far the best of the world.

I think messrs Meazza, Scirea, Tardelli, Zoff, Baresi, Cannavaro, Nesta, Pirlo, Totti, and several others would take exception to that comment.

Congrats for remembering Meazza, mate.
I would add the recordman Silvio Piola that played in my team.
But I was not referring specifically to the quality of the players, but to the football's culture.
So premised, it is incredible that golden generations like those of Seaman, Gascoigne, Lineker, Waddle, Platt, Beardsley, or Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Terry and Cole, won nothing!

[Meanwood Villa]

We're not going down this season but with the big man out I think it'll be more of a limp over the line than a gallop. I am concerned over how we're going to start next season now as well.
However, I don't buy this concept that we'll inevitably drop because there won't be teams worse than us. Pretty much every season there are 3 teams that come up that you have to be reasonably confident of finishing above. There are also smaller clubs than us punching above their weight who will drop before us (Swansea, Stoke, West Ham)

[Ads]

Tactics didn't let us down at Old  Trafford two fundamentals did; positioning when it comes to defending and finishing.

You are certainly right, but I had included defenders positioning  and movements it in the concept of tactics. Anyhow, it is the manager that should teach these things to the players. . .

I personally don't think a manager needs to coach a player to do something as basic as pick up a man, not at this level, it should be second nature.

[Archie]

There is much to learn at this regard.

[Malandro]

I certainly don't think Italian football is boring. English clubs are often found out in european competitions because of their naive, almost gun ho attitude.
I was pondering this week why things haven't moved on - all the money in the world and a lot of well respected international managers - and yet Man u/chelsea/arse still get dominated.

Probably down to the thick as pig shit footballers we produce.

[Chris Smith]

Tactics didn't let us down at Old  Trafford two fundamentals did; positioning when it comes to defending and finishing.

You are certainly right, but I had included defenders positioning  and movements it in the concept of tactics. Anyhow, it is the manager that should teach these things to the players. . .

I personally don't think a manager needs to coach a player to do something as basic as pick up a man, not at this level, it should be second nature.

Quite, it can hardly come as a surprise to be told that as a defender you are expected to defend. The big issue for a defender is concentration, if you fail to pick up a striker and he scores then you get criticised and the other twenty times when you did your job are forgotten. 

[Chris Smith]

I certainly don't think Italian football is boring. English clubs are often found out in european competitions because of their naive, almost gun ho attitude.
I was pondering this week why things haven't moved on - all the money in the world and a lot of well respected international managers - and yet Man u/chelsea/arse still get dominated.

Probably down to the thick as pig shit footballers we produce.

How many of the 'pig shit' players at Chelsea are English?

[ciggiesnbeer]

I love Italian football. For my sins I follow Genoa cricket and football club when I can.

Archie you are right tactically it is much tighter.

But what would you have us play? Lambert is hardly rigid in his tactical thinking, he changes things often enough. The option of maybe one striker up front is tough as we do not really have the depth of midfield to drop 2 of our forward line up right?