The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[hilts_coolerking]

I can't be arsed arguing over fine detail but there's a big difference between "all the criticism" and genuine criticism. I would also argue that he does deserve credit for those early years, not least the fact that we were headed for relegation and some would say that the sale of the Serpentine was what saved us from even deeper shit than could be imagined. Ultimately both the world, and his part of it, changed.

Fair enough, it's just a difference of opinion.  I disagree with you about the significance or indeed the amount of misdirected criticism he gets.  I'd also point out that the threat of relegation is just as real now as it was when he arrived.

I suppose my overall view is that the club is no longer being run in the club's best interests but rather in Lerner's best interests.  Put it this way, when he does eventually go what are we going to miss?  Money?  Leadership?  Football nouse?  Good decision making?

[dave.woodhall]

I can't be arsed arguing over fine detail but there's a big difference between "all the criticism" and genuine criticism. I would also argue that he does deserve credit for those early years, not least the fact that we were headed for relegation and some would say that the sale of the Serpentine was what saved us from even deeper shit than could be imagined. Ultimately both the world, and his part of it, changed.

Fair enough, it's just a difference of opinion.  I disagree with you about the significance or indeed the amount of misdirected criticism he gets.  I'd also point out that the threat of relegation is just as real now as it was when he arrived.

I suppose my overall view is that the club is no longer being run in the club's best interests but rather in Lerner's best interests.  Put it this way, when he does eventually go what are we going to miss?  Money?  Leadership?  Football nouse?  Good decision making?

You'll have to wait until he goes to find that out. What do we miss about Doug, yet there are some who would have him back tomorrow and regard his chairmanship as a golden age.

[hilts_coolerking]

What do we miss about Doug, yet there are some who would have him back tomorrow and regard his chairmanship as a golden age.

I think that's a good indicator of how bad Lerner has been.

[dave.woodhall]

What do we miss about Doug, yet there are some who would have him back tomorrow and regard his chairmanship as a golden age.

I think that's a good indicator of how bad Lerner has been.

Become, not been, and I would say it's an indicator of the strange affection some people have for a man who would have taken their last penny while they smiled and said "Well, that's good old Doug for you."

[Comrade Blitz]

This might be a bit "out there" but I see Lerner's stewardship of the club along the lines of John DuPont in the film Foxcatcher -

Spoiler for Hiden:

except without murder at the end.

But you have two incredibly wealthy geeky American guys who indulge their interests.....

leaving the wrestling behind...

RL develops AVFC in all of the right ways.......ACORNS etc....then MON resigns in 2010....he eventually gets divorced in 2011 (who knows how long that was in the works) and a year or so later he sells the Browns for $1B. He was described as a recluse by Cleveland newspapers who reminisced about the golden days of his father's ownership.

We lost him and his interest a long time ago......I do remember reading an article that talked about the financial impact of the sales of the Browns (and maybe the Villa) on his divorce settlement but cba to look it up.

[mr underhill]

Collymore thinks we are firmly in the relegation mix but was defending Lambert on Talkshite last night to the extent that he'd still give him until this Christmas, even if we get summer change of ownership, although he seemed in avour of calling time on Lambert if we go down. Typical of Stan's schizophrenic, touch all bases approach.

[richard moore]

Collymore thinks we are firmly in the relegation mix but was defending Lambert on Talkshite last night to the extent that he'd still give him until this Christmas, even if we get summer change of ownership, although he seemed in avour of calling time on Lambert if we go down. Typical of Stan's schizophrenic, touch all bases approach.

Caught five minutes of that show last night, god it is frenetic, Stan and the host of the show sound like they are on speed. While on R5, Shay Given was giving his opinions on Man City and Chelsea, says it all really. Well, I say giving his opinions because he managed to talk a lot without really saying anything at all or avoiding the bloody obvious, it was nearly as boring to listen to as watching us. All nicely mixed in with that tosser Savage acting like the crass twat he is

[dave.woodhall]

Collymore thinks we are firmly in the relegation mix but was defending Lambert on Talkshite last night to the extent that he'd still give him until this Christmas, even if we get summer change of ownership, although he seemed in avour of calling time on Lambert if we go down. Typical of Stan's schizophrenic, touch all bases approach.

Possibly not the wisest choice of word.

[wozwebs]

Thanks for the spoiler!

This might be a bit "out there" but I see Lerner's stewardship of the club along the lines of John DuPont in the film Foxcatcher

Spoiler for Hiden:

- except without murder at the end.

But you have two incredibly wealthy geeky American guys who indulge their interests.....

leaving the wrestling behind...

RL develops AVFC in all of the right ways.......ACORNS etc....then MON resigns in 2010....he eventually gets divorced in 2011 (who knows how long that was in the works) and a year or so later he sells the Browns for $1B. He was described as a recluse by Cleveland newspapers who reminisced about the golden days of his father's ownership.

We lost him and his interest a long time ago......I do remember reading an article that talked about the financial impact of the sales of the Browns (and maybe the Villa) on his divorce settlement but cba to look it up.

[eamonn]

Collymore thinks we are firmly in the relegation mix but was defending Lambert on Talkshite last night to the extent that he'd still give him until this Christmas, even if we get summer change of ownership, although he seemed in avour of calling time on Lambert if we go down. Typical of Stan's schizophrenic, touch all bases approach.

Caught five minutes of that show last night, god it is frenetic, Stan and the host of the show sound like they are on speed. While on R5, Shay Given was giving his opinions on Man City and Chelsea, says it all really. Well, I say giving his opinions because he managed to talk a lot without really saying anything at all or avoiding the bloody obvious, it was nearly as boring to listen to as watching us. All nicely mixed in with that tosser Savage acting like the crass twat he is

Isn't Cabbage one of the few pundits calling a spade a spade when it comes to Lambert's crap coaching?

[ciggiesnbeer]

Savage? Nah not really. He does enjoy winding up Villa fans but I can't be mad at him for it.

He does it with that "come on son, you know I am talking shite, I know it, but I am getting paid for it so lets have a giggle eh?" kind of look.

[Clampy]

Savage? Nah not really. He does enjoy winding up Villa fans but I can't be mad at him for it.

He does it with that "come on son, you know I am talking shite, I know it, but I am getting paid for it so lets have a giggle eh?" kind of look.

No, he's does it because he's a twat.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think it's about time we stopped giving him credit for wasting a fortune a good few years ago.  Whichever way you look at it he's the one responsible for where we are now.  Yes, Lambert's operating under a tight budget but that's Lerner's choice.  And yes, Lambert is doing a poor job but Lerner's the only one with the authority to sack him.

He had a good two or three years when everything was being done for him but it's gone from bad to worse since.  Some of the decision making has been beyond belief.  And for him to bugger off and never show his face is a giant 'fuck you' to the supporters.  Sooner or later someone's going to have to come in and clear up the mess he's made.

For all the criticism he gets, "where we are now" is still higher up the league than when he arrived.

Not hugely, though.

2005-6 we finished 16th. We are currently 15th

Is the current squad better than the one we had when he arrived? I'm not too sure, but surely, the most important point is that, hundreds of millions of pounds later, we should have a significantly better squad than we had back then.

In the first four years, he threw money at the club, but a series of really poor management decisions - by himself - has meant that that investment in the squad was all short term in nature. The value of the squad was not maintained, poor decisions were made, players walking out at the end of contracts for nothing.

I understand the appeal in letting MON run the entire show for four years, but on reflection, that was a horrendously bad decision. It bought short term gain, but at a massive cost.

Four "good years" but at a cost which cast a shadow over us for several years after, followed by a period which involves 3, and possibly 4, seasons of finishing in exactly the sort of relegation dodging position we'd just finished in when he arrived.

As a benefactor, he was good for a few years, but as a leader, he has been very poor, right from the off, I'm afraid. Nice bloke, I am sure, but massively out of his depth.

[jonzy85]

I haven't frequented this forum in a while. I find the way Villa have gone too depressing to bring myself on here and pore over the gorey details.

It strikes me odd that while over 90% want Lambert out, yet the thread's content has become a discussion on Lerner's role. I suppose this reflects the general despair at the club's state.

I voted no in the poll, but that's because there isn't a "shrug the shoulders, with a knowing glance that it won't make a difference option." I can't say I'm a big fan of Lambert, but I don't see how anyone could do significantly better under the current regime. My fear would be that someone could do significantly (or just a little) worse and actually bring us down. In this day and age where clubs are so trigger happy firing managers, maybe we can buck the trend and stick with ours. We may even reap the rewards of having this group sticking together with the manager in trying times.....and I'm finished clutching at straws.

So to end my chirpy analysis of our managerial situation, stick with him as he has managed to keep us up the last few years and there are McGrath knows how many that would bring us down. Then one day, Lerner will be gone and we may stand a chance to have a club we are proud of.

So my extremely defeatist and depressing view is to stick with Lambert

[myf]

I haven't frequented this forum in a while. I find the way Villa have gone too depressing to bring myself on here and pore over the gorey details.

It strikes me odd that while over 90% want Lambert out, yet the thread's content has become a discussion on Lerner's role. I suppose this reflects the general despair at the club's state.

I voted no in the poll, but that's because there isn't a "shrug the shoulders, with a knowing glance that it won't make a difference option." I can't say I'm a big fan of Lambert, but I don't see how anyone could do significantly better under the current regime. My fear would be that someone could do significantly (or just a little) worse and actually bring us down. In this day and age where clubs are so trigger happy firing managers, maybe we can buck the trend and stick with ours. We may even reap the rewards of having this group sticking together with the manager in trying times.....and I'm finished clutching at straws.

So to end my chirpy analysis of our managerial situation, stick with him as he has managed to keep us up the last few years and there are McGrath knows how many that would bring us down. Then one day, Lerner will be gone and we may stand a chance to have a club we are proud of.

So my extremely defeatist and depressing view is to stick with Lambert

I used to think stability was important but in 2.5 years it seems we've made no progress whatsoever.  We've basically survived by the skin of our teeth and cut the wage bill, but there's still a reasonable chance we'll drop this year as our form has deteriorated despite having a stronger squad.

It will be interesting to see if you still think it's best to stick with Lambert at 5pm on Sunday if we're out the cup.