The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Toronto Villa]

Is that famous Villa fan Tom Hanks?

[Comrade Blitz]

Is that famous Villa fan Tom Hanks?

Amazing that two blokes can be THAT fugly, eh?

[peter w]

Very true Toronto but an administration career can often be burnished by taking on a problem job because the performance buck stops with the manager.  An illustration would be my eldest daughter who is a very highly qualified town planner  and was offered two jobs at the same time.   One with a leafy Garden City, one with an Inner London Borough.   She took the latter because it would be a bigger challenge.   Perhaps Tom Fox came for the challenge.   Would Martinez or Moyes come to us for that reason?   Not  so sure.

Oh I think they would. It's not like either of them walked into perfect situations in their current roles. Martinez came into a healthier situation at a club that for a number of years prior was financially teetering on the edge, and would Moyes have chosen Real Sociedad if the Villa job had been offered to him? I don't think he would. Not saying Martinez would leave now as he is in a good spot, but I think there are managers in England and abroad that would see Villa as a step up. For example just domestically, would Koeman look at Villa as a bigger job than Southampton or Hughes at Stoke? I think they would. Even up and coming or even some established managers in France or Spain would look at chance to manage a big PL club as step up. I don't think you can look at it as a fan. They look at it like any of us would look at a job opportunity at a bigger company with more money. I think as fans we are so close to the action that we cannot by nature have a impartial or rational perspective on things at our club.

I think the attraction of managing Villa is the potential rather than where we are now. Koeman wouldn't see us as a step-up currently because their team and financial footing is better than ours. But undoubtedly where we could go is a lot further than a Southampton. Its just making us attractive enough to make that step. I doubt it would take much.

[brontebilly]

I seem to remember that Alex McLeish was the 20th highest paid football manager in the world when he was with us.

That's the sort of thing that could make a manager interested in taking on a job.

Not everyone moves for more money though Dave. A quick look through the archives reveals Villa Park as a managerial graveyard. Little, O'Leary, O'Neill, Lambert were all in demand when we got them, yet they were pretty much finished by the time they left us. The problem at the club runs a lot deeper than who the manager is. Inexperienced European coaches will be advised to stay away from Villa Park at the present time. As a result we will be linked with the megalomaniac British leeches like Hughes, Pulis etc who bring in their own crew, reward their cronies with big money contracts and hit for the hills when this approach runs out of legs. Rinse and repeat.

Id like to see us take an approach like Southampton did 10 years or more ago when they were in a far worse state than we are now. Invest in our coaching, structures at the club, defined style of play. Southampton brought in Cortese to run the club with little or no football knowledge who slowly transformed the club. Some great anecdotes of his time there when Pardew particularly was in charge. Pardew wanted to bring in a mate of his as physio but Cortese refused as who was Pardew to make a judgement on the scientific expertise of his mate. I dont think its any surprise that Southampton's recent managers have all been successes. The same with Swansea. Even Everton, it was far easier for Martinez to come in there after the foundations left by Moyes.

Im far from a fan of Lambert but he needs help. He does have a decent eye for a player and we should throw money at Delph to keep him at the club. I would honestly prefer to get relegated than have Pulis, Hughes or any of those leeches near the club. But the real work at the club needs to start off the field. As others have recounted numerous time on here, we were narrowly edged out back in 92/93 by Saturday's visitors. Why did both clubs go on completely different paths since then? Our club has so much going for it and unlike Manchester or Liverpool, we dont really have any serious local rivals to speak of. We can rise again but our collective energy is being directed towards the wrong man at the moment.

[Dave]

I seem to remember that Alex McLeish was the 20th highest paid football manager in the world when he was with us.

That's the sort of thing that could make a manager interested in taking on a job.

Not everyone moves for more money though Dave.

They don't, but the whole "who on earth would want to join us" hysteria rings a bit hollow when we're talking about one of the top paying jobs in world football. And these people are taking a job, not making a lifelong commitment. 

Not everybody would be interested, but I think it's safe to say that plenty of people would be.

[PaulWinch again]

Benteke's comments about a new style of play suggests we're actually trying to play possession football by design now.

[aj2k77]

Which highlights what a joke our coaching is that we went from the last couple of months of the 12/13 season playing some decent football to a non possession long hoof ball by design.

[pauliewalnuts]

Which highlights what a joke our coaching is that we went from the last couple of months of the 12/13 season playing some decent football to a non possession long hoof ball by design.

That's exactly what I thought. How depressing that that endless brainless hoofing in the vague direction of Benteke was actually a "tactic"

[PaulWinch again]

Yep indeed, well hopefully he's finally learnt now.

[ROBBO]

As m,uch as i want hime gone i do worry that we are in a position where no-one decent would dare take us on.

That's a fair point.  What decent manager would take on the Villa job knowing we have a chairman who really couldn't care less about the club?  Sadly I think we're stuck with the pair of muppets till Lerner finds a buyer.

yes because there would be no decent manager that would want to run a massive football club, capable of attracting 35-40k gates with any hint of success, in arguably the most high profile, cash rich league in the world.

I agree. I think the Villa job is a no lose for any prospective manager. Pundits, or 'the inner circle' of football still defend Lambert's record at Villa Park citing the owner's apparent lack of interest and believe he's doing the best possible job under the circumstances. the Villa job is like a free pass. Finish mid table and you've done a fantastic job, get relegated and it's not your fault. Every manager wants to manage in the Premier League, Aston Villa will always be a big job.

I didn't say that we couldn't find a manager i said that i worried we couldn't attract anyone decent.

[IAmTheOneIanOlney]

That's exactly what I thought. How depressing that that endless brainless hoofing in the vague direction of Benteke was actually a "tactic"

Particularly when it was a tactic that clearly wasn't yielding results. I'm glad he's seen the light, for whatever reason, because losing is bad enough without being constantly embarrassed by the way we've played. I think most Villa fans see a core of players who are capable of playing enterprising football.

[Toronto Villa]

As m,uch as i want hime gone i do worry that we are in a position where no-one decent would dare take us on.

That's a fair point.  What decent manager would take on the Villa job knowing we have a chairman who really couldn't care less about the club?  Sadly I think we're stuck with the pair of muppets till Lerner finds a buyer.

yes because there would be no decent manager that would want to run a massive football club, capable of attracting 35-40k gates with any hint of success, in arguably the most high profile, cash rich league in the world.

I agree. I think the Villa job is a no lose for any prospective manager. Pundits, or 'the inner circle' of football still defend Lambert's record at Villa Park citing the owner's apparent lack of interest and believe he's doing the best possible job under the circumstances. the Villa job is like a free pass. Finish mid table and you've done a fantastic job, get relegated and it's not your fault. Every manager wants to manage in the Premier League, Aston Villa will always be a big job.

I didn't say that we couldn't find a manager i said that i worried we couldn't attract anyone decent.

yes which I completely disagree with for the reasons I cited plus the fact that we pay really well. I think there are plenty of very decent managers who would want to be manager of Aston Villa.

[Toronto Villa]

Which highlights what a joke our coaching is that we went from the last couple of months of the 12/13 season playing some decent football to a non possession long hoof ball by design.

That's exactly what I thought. How depressing that that endless brainless hoofing in the vague direction of Benteke was actually a "tactic"

That's what is so bizarre. I've said this before that we have all seen this set of players show the ability to knock the ball about and play some very creative football, yet for some reason the major tactic has always been to almost intentionally give the ball away and counter. If Lambert really has seen the light, and it would be embarrassing that it took a trip to Munich to have it pointed out to him, then maybe however it has come about there is still hope for him. Should there be mounting evidence that this is the path forward tactically and he brings in a coach or two to build on that, then I would certainly give him some time. The results won't be immediate and it will need some investment to improve the playing staff, so as fans we would also need to be a bit patient.

But losing games having tried to play good football and actually trying to win as opposed to the garbage we have been fed this season is a lot more palatable. And we'll start to see results too as we get better at it; ultimately the goal of all of this.

[pauliewalnuts]

Which highlights what a joke our coaching is that we went from the last couple of months of the 12/13 season playing some decent football to a non possession long hoof ball by design.

That's exactly what I thought. How depressing that that endless brainless hoofing in the vague direction of Benteke was actually a "tactic"

That's what is so bizarre. I've said this before that we have all seen this set of players show the ability to knock the ball about and play some very creative football, yet for some reason the major tactic has always been to almost intentionally give the ball away and counter. If Lambert really has seen the light, and it would be embarrassing that it took a trip to Munich to have it pointed out to him, then maybe however it has come about there is still hope for him. Should there be mounting evidence that this is the path forward tactically and he brings in a coach or two to build on that, then I would certainly give him some time. The results won't be immediate and it will need some investment to improve the playing staff, so as fans we would also need to be a bit patient.

But losing games having tried to play good football and actually trying to win as opposed to the garbage we have been fed this season is a lot more palatable. And we'll start to see results too as we get better at it; ultimately the goal of all of this.

We've only really seen two or three matches of it, though. If you look back at his first season, we saw far more of it. Last season there was almost none of it, and this season until a couple of weeks ago there was none of it.

I hope he doesn't revert back.

Interesting that in the Culverhouse and Karsa fall-out, one of the things that found its way into the press was the suggestion that they were training the squad in long ball tactics. Seeing Benteke's quote, it looks like that has been going on for a while, including after they were sacked.

[RussellC]

The game that really stands out to be this year, more than any other, was the Leyton Orient Capital Cup game. I still lie awake at night some times wondering exactly what the plan was for us to score a goal. I have never seen a team with such little attacking intent or purpose, or 2 centre-backs have such comfortable games against 'superior opposition'. We kept the ball as well as we have at any time under Lambert (as you would have hoped) but for large spells of the game it was almost like every senior player had forgotten that we actually needed to score at least one goal to have any chance of winning the game. That was the  first time that I thought Lambert was not just tactically inept, but tactically non-existent. I've seen little since to change my mind.