The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[pauliewalnuts]

We've seen this all before. A brief glimmer of light followed by a cave in. Been there done it and the cycle continues ad nauseam. Lambert all too rarely learns from his mistakes. .

Couldn't agree more with this.

We've seen this so often under Lambert. A brief flicker of style / results, followed by an extended period of shitness. He never seems to be able to build any momentum after we get things right. It'd be so different if he could manage that, but he fails to, every time.

Whist this is true, but it's hardly his fault Richardson lost his head, or even that Benteke missed a couple of good chances.  He has also been massively unlucky with injuries.  I agree the football has been really poor, but he has been dealt a difficult hand with injuries to major players.  How many teams at our level would have coped with losing so many senior players particularly with the run of matches we had.  People forget just how many players we've had out - Benteke, Kovak, Cole, Delph, Okore, Vlaar, Senderos, Baker, Westwood then Benteke gets suspended....

I'm not saying all is rosy, far from it.  But we have certainly been unfortunate.  I've absolutely no doubt we would have picked up a few more points even if just Benteke hadn't got suspended right after coming back, let alone a few of the other key ones - notably Delph, Vlaar & Senderos.

Even allowing for the circumstances of the red card, and losing that match, I'd still consider some decent results from the next matches as maintaining some momentum.

Have to say, though, the "but if Benteke had taken that chance" line of argument - in general, not just here - always confuses me. He should have and could have, but he didn't. I wouldn't see stuff like that as a mitigating factor. It is just part of the game, otherwise it all becomes a bit "if my granny had bollocks...."

You could probably say similar things about every goal scored "if that defender hadn't taken his eye off the man he was marking, if the keeper had punched rather than parried, if we'd not missed that penalty" etc etc

[Dave]

Have to say, though, the "but if Benteke had taken that chance" line of argument - in general, not just here - always confuses me. He should have and could have, but he didn't. I wouldn't see stuff like that as a mitigating factor. It is just part of the game, otherwise it all becomes a bit "if my granny had bollocks...."

You could probably say similar things about every goal scored "if that defender hadn't taken his eye off the man he was marking, if the keeper had punched rather than parried, if we'd not missed that penalty" etc etc

And with our style of play it very much goes both ways.

If Chris Wood had shot 18 inches to his right in the last minute against Leicester. If Guzan hadn't got his fingertips to Nugent's volley. If Zaha's cross hadn't gone right in the middle of three Palace players.

[chrisw1]

Have to say, though, the "but if Benteke had taken that chance" line of argument - in general, not just here - always confuses me. He should have and could have, but he didn't. I wouldn't see stuff like that as a mitigating factor. It is just part of the game, otherwise it all becomes a bit "if my granny had bollocks...."

You could probably say similar things about every goal scored "if that defender hadn't taken his eye off the man he was marking, if the keeper had punched rather than parried, if we'd not missed that penalty" etc etc

And with our style of play it very much goes both ways.

If Chris Wood had shot 18 inches to his right in the last minute against Leicester. If Guzan hadn't got his fingertips to Nugent's volley. If Zaha's cross hadn't gone right in the middle of three Palace players.

Of course it does.  Football is a game of fine margins.  But, I still think it's tough to blame Lambert entirely for our loss of momentum at the Baggies when by common consensus the 11 players he sent out was probably good enough to get a win or draw at the least (despite an ongoing injury crisis).  The principal culprit was Richardson in my view.  Yes Lambert did sign him, but blaming him for the sending off is surely a bit of a stretch even for the biggest pessimists?

[pauliewalnuts]

Have to say, though, the "but if Benteke had taken that chance" line of argument - in general, not just here - always confuses me. He should have and could have, but he didn't. I wouldn't see stuff like that as a mitigating factor. It is just part of the game, otherwise it all becomes a bit "if my granny had bollocks...."

You could probably say similar things about every goal scored "if that defender hadn't taken his eye off the man he was marking, if the keeper had punched rather than parried, if we'd not missed that penalty" etc etc

And with our style of play it very much goes both ways.

If Chris Wood had shot 18 inches to his right in the last minute against Leicester. If Guzan hadn't got his fingertips to Nugent's volley. If Zaha's cross hadn't gone right in the middle of three Palace players.

Of course it does.  Football is a game of fine margins.  But, I still think it's tough to blame Lambert entirely for our loss of momentum at the Baggies when by common consensus the 11 players he sent out was probably good enough to get a win or draw at the least (despite an ongoing injury crisis).  The principal culprit was Richardson in my view.  Yes Lambert did sign him, but blaming him for the sending off is surely a bit of a stretch even for the biggest pessimists?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be prepared to give him a pass on the Albion game, given what happened.

I now look forward to watching him continue to build some momentum behind us. Or not, as the case will almost certainly be.

[silhillvilla]

I hold lambert wholly responsible for the WBA debacle .
Poor team selection and crap tactics. Responsibility is firmly his here.

[Legion]

Richardson was more culpable than Lambert. If he had stayed on the pitch, we'd have probably earned a draw.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

We've seen this all before. A brief glimmer of light followed by a cave in. Been there done it and the cycle continues ad nauseam. Lambert all too rarely learns from his mistakes. .

Couldn't agree more with this.

We've seen this so often under Lambert. A brief flicker of style / results, followed by an extended period of shitness. He never seems to be able to build any momentum after we get things right. It'd be so different if he could manage that, but he fails to, every time.

Couldn't agree more, but not helped just at the moment by suspensions kicking in, injuries and having just lost - in the way that we did - to a poor team.

[Clampy]

I hold lambert wholly responsible for the WBA debacle .
Poor team selection and crap tactics. Responsibility is firmly his here.

It wasn't a 'debacle'. Playing with 10 men for 70 minutes would have been tough whoever we were playing. It was a combination of a lot of things on the day.

[Chris Smith]

I hold lambert wholly responsible for the WBA debacle .
Poor team selection and crap tactics. Responsibility is firmly his here.

Nothing like a bit of inappropriate, over the top language to help boost an argument.

Since when has losing 1-0 in an away game played with 10 men for 75 minutes been considered a debacle?

[gpbarr]

I hold lambert wholly responsible for the WBA debacle .
Poor team selection and crap tactics. Responsibility is firmly his here.

Been on the Xmas grog I see

[andyh]

Have to say, though, the "but if Benteke had taken that chance" line of argument - in general, not just here - always confuses me. He should have and could have, but he didn't. I wouldn't see stuff like that as a mitigating factor. It is just part of the game, otherwise it all becomes a bit "if my granny had bollocks...."

You could probably say similar things about every goal scored "if that defender hadn't taken his eye off the man he was marking, if the keeper had punched rather than parried, if we'd not missed that penalty" etc etc

And with our style of play it very much goes both ways.

If Chris Wood had shot 18 inches to his right in the last minute against Leicester. If Guzan hadn't got his fingertips to Nugent's volley. If Zaha's cross hadn't gone right in the middle of three Palace players.

Of course it does.  Football is a game of fine margins.  But, I still think it's tough to blame Lambert entirely for our loss of momentum at the Baggies when by common consensus the 11 players he sent out was probably good enough to get a win or draw at the least (despite an ongoing injury crisis).  The principal culprit was Richardson in my view.  Yes Lambert did sign him, but blaming him for the sending off is surely a bit of a stretch even for the biggest pessimists?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be prepared to give him a pass on the Albion game, given what happened.

I now look forward to watching him continue to build some momentum behind us. Or not, as the case will almost certainly be.

I see what you are saying here Paulie about giving him a pass for the Albion game.
The problem is if (when) we lose on Saturday, regardless of performance, he'll get another pass because we can't be expected to beat Man U.
There always seems to be an excuse for giving him a pass.
 
The bloke gets more 'passes' than Messi. 
 

[saunders_heroes]

Have to say, though, the "but if Benteke had taken that chance" line of argument - in general, not just here - always confuses me. He should have and could have, but he didn't. I wouldn't see stuff like that as a mitigating factor. It is just part of the game, otherwise it all becomes a bit "if my granny had bollocks...."

You could probably say similar things about every goal scored "if that defender hadn't taken his eye off the man he was marking, if the keeper had punched rather than parried, if we'd not missed that penalty" etc etc

And with our style of play it very much goes both ways.

If Chris Wood had shot 18 inches to his right in the last minute against Leicester. If Guzan hadn't got his fingertips to Nugent's volley. If Zaha's cross hadn't gone right in the middle of three Palace players.

Of course it does.  Football is a game of fine margins.  But, I still think it's tough to blame Lambert entirely for our loss of momentum at the Baggies when by common consensus the 11 players he sent out was probably good enough to get a win or draw at the least (despite an ongoing injury crisis).  The principal culprit was Richardson in my view.  Yes Lambert did sign him, but blaming him for the sending off is surely a bit of a stretch even for the biggest pessimists?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be prepared to give him a pass on the Albion game, given what happened.

I now look forward to watching him continue to build some momentum behind us. Or not, as the case will almost certainly be.

I see what you are saying here Paulie about giving him a pass for the Albion game.
The problem is if (when) we lose on Saturday, regardless of performance, he'll get another pass because we can't be expected to beat Man U.
There always seems to be an excuse for giving him a pass.
 
The bloke gets more 'passes' than Messi. 
 

Exactly. This manager has got away with murder,  the same applies to the chairman also.

[LTA]

Exactly. Losing is bad enough, but losing with a wimper like we've done so many times under Lambert makes it worse.

Sadly, given the chairman and CEO have been so gushing about him recently, he's going nowhere and is free to continue raining more crap down onto us.

[aj2k77]

There's an excuse for nearly every defeat.

Injuries.
Someone got sent off.
Keane's being a ******.
They're on a good run.
We're lacking confidence.
Ref gave us nothing.
They spent more money than us.

We've got no backbone as a club at the moment and accept whatever shit is served up to us and whatever bad record is broken. There is no excuse or reason why 3 years down the line from taking over Lambert hasn't stamped any kind of signature on his team, we wing it from game to game trying to survive and it's shit to watch and shit to be a part of.

The sooner the chancers Lambert and Lerner leave the better. Never in a million years are they capable of taking us forward proactively, every decision is a reaction to something they didn't see coming.

And no I won't accept that this is where we should be right now. We should have sacked that clown after the Christmas and New Year 2012 fuck up and got in someone else, we didn't because the chairman couldn't give a hoot as long as we don't cost him more dollars.

[Ads]

I don’t see the issue with taking a game on its merits. To say but for Richardson getting sent off we would have avoided defeat, is not an excuse, it’s identifying a chain of causation.

I am also at a loss to how the manager is copping criticism for a game yet to take place and one that fans have already given up on. It would be a bizarre contradiction to point and say “ah but the manager will approach the game negatively anyway” when so much of the support have already thrown in the towel. It would be equally disingenuous to say that this prediction is based on past performance as people have been wilting at the prospect of playing Man United at home long before Lambert became manager.