The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Gregorys Boy]

We've gone on an unbeaten run without Vlaar and Delph. They are definitely replaceable.

Yes, we have gone a little run, but factor in the quality of the opposition.

I don't remember the quality of the opposition being factored in much when we were on a big losing streak earlier in the season.

At this point the quality of opposition matters little it is about getting a couple of wins to drag us away from the drop zone.  Also, we did beat Liverpool earlier in the season.  And lets not forget that we beat a lot of the big clubs last season, but still let outselves down against other teams so you can read too much into that kind of thing.

[silhillvilla]

Beating the likes of palace and Leicester is probably more important than beating your Chelsea's and arsenals of this world.

[paul_e]

I don't mind us not beating the arsenal's and chelsea's of the league, I do mind us making no show of even trying to, the complete ack of intent during the horrible run of games totally drained all of the confidence out of the team and we still haven't recovered from it.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

It is.
They're the kind of games we lost last season - both Palace and Fulham did the double over us. If we'd performed better against those around us we'd have been safer sooner, obviously.
6 points against us was a very large proportion of Fulham's points total.

Wouldn't have missed Man CiŁy and Chavski for the world, and these games are great for the spirit; less so if we don't beat the clubs at the bottom/around us.

[Clampy]

I don't mind us not beating the arsenal's and chelsea's of the league, I do mind us making no show of even trying to, the complete ack of intent during the horrible run of games totally drained all of the confidence out of the team and we still haven't recovered from it.

We did play pretty well against Arsenal until they went mad and killed the game inside 3 minutes. Thought we were poor during that run apart from that, especially the QPR game which was shocking.

[richard moore]

I don't mind us not beating the arsenal's and chelsea's of the league, I do mind us making no show of even trying to, the complete ack of intent during the horrible run of games totally drained all of the confidence out of the team and we still haven't recovered from it.

I bloody mind. A lot. Though I agree totally with you about not even setting out to try to have a go. How low have we sunk when that seems to the limit of our ambitions.

[villa `cross the mersey]

I`m a Villa fan - I want us to beat everyone!- or at least bust a gut trying to do so. Likewise its all a bit small time when we get excited at the thought of beating Palace, Leicester et al. How times have changed

[PeterWithesShin]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at Derby 3-0 Brighton after 20 mins. Laugh at the Brighton twats for taking the piss out of us, cry that 3 of their starting 11 are ours.

[silhillvilla]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at Derby 3-0 Brighton after 20 mins. Laugh at the Brighton twats for taking the piss out of us, cry that 3 of their starting 11 are ours.

All 3 have started aswell, Gardner booked too.

[LeeB]

I`m a Villa fan - I want us to beat everyone!- or at least bust a gut trying to do so. Likewise its all a bit small time when we get excited at the thought of beating Palace, Leicester et al. How times have changed

I don't think Villa have ever been good enough that I can not get excited to beat teams in our division.

[steffo]

Every manager learns how to manage his way by having success whilst playing. Lambert takes his mantra from Ottmar Hitzfield with whom he won the European Cup.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/20/world-cup-2010-switzerland-ottmar-hitzfeld

Ottmar as described is defensive, no width etc. He has succeeded with quality players.

Dortmund had 33% possession that night. Sound familiar?

MON also won a European cup with Forest. Clough playing 4-3-3 with width and largely journeymen players at best. (Burns, Clark, Lloyd, McGovern, Birtles) no great shakes. Many a time forest would play counter attacking football. But they had an outlet wide in Robertson who could hold the ball.

We all agree that MON had riches to spend and nearly achieved silverware, Lambert by contrast has had less to spend but bar a few signings they have been poor. Both managers have a very poor record of introducing academy players through to the first team. (Houlier actually introduced 6)

Everyday Lambert is in control his 'mantra' of dull defensive football is being passed down to the academy. Sack the cnut now!

[Mister E]

Every manager learns how to manage his way by having success whilst playing. Lambert takes his mantra from Ottmar Hitzfield with whom he won the European Cup.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/20/world-cup-2010-switzerland-ottmar-hitzfeld

Ottmar as described is defensive, no width etc. He has succeeded with quality players.

Dortmund had 33% possession that night. Sound familiar?

MON also won a European cup with Forest. Clough playing 4-3-3 with width and largely journeymen players at best. (Burns, Clark, Lloyd, McGovern, Birtles) no great shakes. Many a time forest would play counter attacking football. But they had an outlet wide in Robertson who could hold the ball.

We all agree that MON had riches to spend and nearly achieved silverware, Lambert by contrast has had less to spend but bar a few signings they have been poor. Both managers have a very poor record of introducing academy players through to the first team. (Houlier actually introduced 6)

Everyday Lambert is in control his 'mantra' of dull defensive football is being passed down to the academy. Sack the cnut now

All well good but it has taken Lambert 3 seasons to drill a reasonably watertight defence. So, he's not even got the fundamentals of this approach right.

[gpbarr]

The table never lies. Unattractive it is, but the fanaticism with 'his' playing style can't be confused with the results.

With the exception of WH and Southampton, the table looks 'right' to me in that it's by and large reflective the spending power of each club. And therein lies the tale that won't go away whether Lambert or any other sacrificial lamb is in charge

The table gives us a relative view of our performance; that's true.
However, the link to spend is only relevant as long as you believe that each manager is making best use of their funds. Sourhampton and Wet Spam demonstrate currently that managerial effectiveness and the absence of injuries, amongst other things, result in better performances.
With Lambert, we have a manager who seems incapable of maximising the squad at his disposal.

Sure, but the point here is that by and large, the table (not just now but for 5-6 seasons now since money truly ruined the beautiful game) reflects the relative spending power of each club. True, there are always one or two exceptions each year, but the trend is abundantly clear. And not to remind anyone but Allardyce was a pariah not too long ago - we will see where they end up but likely mid table as per my point.

I'm not claiming Lambert is doing a good job - simply that a manager doing a better job would unlikely materially change the final result. Because whomever that is, they dont control nor have the power to decide how much to spend.

[Gregorys Boy]

I`m a Villa fan - I want us to beat everyone!- or at least bust a gut trying to do so. Likewise its all a bit small time when we get excited at the thought of beating Palace, Leicester et al. How times have changed

People weren't getting excited over who we had beaten just that it was a win at last!

[ChicagoLion]

The table never lies. Unattractive it is, but the fanaticism with 'his' playing style can't be confused with the results.

With the exception of WH and Southampton, the table looks 'right' to me in that it's by and large reflective the spending power of each club. And therein lies the tale that won't go away whether Lambert or any other sacrificial lamb is in charge

The table gives us a relative view of our performance; that's true.
However, the link to spend is only relevant as long as you believe that each manager is making best use of their funds. Sourhampton and Wet Spam demonstrate currently that managerial effectiveness and the absence of injuries, amongst other things, result in better performances.
With Lambert, we have a manager who seems incapable of maximising the squad at his disposal.

Sure, but the point here is that by and large, the table (not just now but for 5-6 seasons now since money truly ruined the beautiful game) reflects the relative spending power of each club. True, there are always one or two exceptions each year, but the trend is abundantly clear. And not to remind anyone but Allardyce was a pariah not too long ago - we will see where they end up but likely mid table as per my point.

I'm not claiming Lambert is doing a good job - simply that a manager doing a better job would unlikely materially change the final result. Because whomever that is, they dont control nor have the power to decide how much to spend.

Then Lambert is underperforming because he has had access to better players and more spending power than the majority of clubs in the PL.