The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[villasjf]

From a member of our FB Page:

STILL A Fan of Lambert ? WAKE UP to the FACTS : 1. Biggest defeat in premiership history (8-0 chelsea)

2. Worst start to a season since we've been in the premiership (his first season)

3. First manager since we've been in the premiership to have two seasons or more and hasn't achieved a top ten finish

4. Most home defeats in a single season ever

5. Most defeats over a season in our premiership history (20 last season)

6. Most goals let in over a season since we've been in the premiership (over 60 last season)

7. Five defeats in a row without scoring for the first time in our entire history

8. Six defeats in a row for the first time since we've been in the premiership and also beyond (47 years)

9. First manager to lose to a fourth tier side over two legs in a cup semi-final

10. First time we've gone out of cup competitions three years on the spin to lower league opposition?

11. 23 defeats in 36 games the worst run any manager has ever had at this club?

So do you rate him or not?

What about most of his signings who are now on loan and are not premier league quality.

[JUAN PABLO]

The thing is tom , he might get a two win streak somewhere and then we go on another awful run again.

We can't wait if he turns it around , he's had enough time.

He needs to go before its too late.

[aj2k77]

I was listening to the radio last night and they were discussing managers. Someone was on there saying a good manager is responsible for not only improving the players technically but also helping them to improve tactically and making them aware of the game and it's many situations.

Can anyone say Lambert has done either? Technically we are shit, and when players join they soon seem to slip down to our level after a decent start. Tactically the players are clueless. From Corners to throw ins and running down the clock the team are inept.

I don't see any way Lambert improves the team. As for his vaunted transfer record, hasn't all of last seasons transfers been a complete and utter wipeout?

[Tom_Mc9?]

The thing is tom , he might get a two win streak somewhere and then we go on another awful run again.

I can't see that happening any time soon.

[supertom]

I was listening to the radio last night and they were discussing managers. Someone was on there saying a good manager is responsible for not only improving the players technically but also helping them to improve tactically and making them aware of the game and it's many situations.

Can anyone say Lambert has done either? Technically we are shit, and when players join they soon seem to slip down to our level after a decent start. Tactically the players are clueless. From Corners to throw ins and running down the clock the team are inept.

I don't see any way Lambert improves the team. As for his vaunted transfer record, hasn't all of last seasons transfers been a complete and utter wipeout?

I've never seen us look as clueless. Even under McLeish for half a season we looked well drilled and efficiently set up to nick a result here and there. Losing our 3 best players in the space of a month then killed us that season. Up until Jan we were comfortably mid-table though as dour it was to watch.

Everything Lambert promised, such as the attractive football and plenty of attacking intent, he's failed to deliver. We had 3 months where we looked okay at the tail end of his first season, when we looked like we could score against anyone. Since then it's been an abomination.

The key point though, as you mentioned, tactically and technically we're as bad as anyone in the top flight. Possibly the worst. Certainly tactically, and with the exception of 3-4 clubs, technically too.

Players starting well and turning to shit is also an interesting point too. Just looking at the left back situation. Luna started well and ended up looking like a pub player. Bertrand started brightly and soon turned to muck. Cissokho started well but he's looked like bambi on ice for the last 5 games to be perfectly honest.

We're in a whole shit heap of trouble if Benteke starts showing signs of his ability being drained at this club.

[footyskillz]

Right  on Toronto.  The far east beckons I think.

To take up your point footyskillz, and welcome by the way, I really do take issue with your comments that "Lambert is respected as a current manager".   Respected by whom?  And "indifferent" performances by players.   The record is there to be seen in black and white, it is not an "indifferent" playing record.   It is rank bad and getting worse.  Also your "not all his methods are working".   Which of his methods are actually working?   Goal scoring? Defending? Playing attractive football? Communicating with the media? Engaging with the fans? Building player morale? And finally that "the last six performances have shown some promise".   Could you elaborate on exactly what was promising?  Defending? Goal scoring? Entertaining football? Fitness levels? Canny substitutions? Player discipline? Grit? Tenacity? On the field leadership? Dynamic support and guidance from the bench by Lambert and Keane?

I am sorry footyskillz and I intend no personal criticism, but you are manna from heaven for those on the payroll of the club whose primary strategy is to pull the duvet over their heads and hope the bogeyman will go away.

As I have said previously, in life you get what you are prepared to put up with.

Okay Lambert is respected by his fellow managers.And noted for his Celtic achievements as well as being a champions league winner. This gets a huge amount of respect in the game to have such a medal .  He also in the main respected by his players . Granted the stats don't lie right now but there has been a change with coaches so that means finding the right methods to suit the players. Lambert input during training is not necessarily as big as people may think. He is the manager and not the coach. Lambert trusts Keane and expects him to deliver quality coaching. I say the performances are indifferent as that's how I see it. This is both fair comment and my opinion .  Lambert in media interviews has said that the team is capable of scoring goals Lambert puts his own spin on things for the media and to remain solid for the club and fans . In that instance he is doing his job correctly  by giving positive hope that any defeatist attitude. For me that's something that has to be respected.

[Chico Hamilton III]

Lambert in media interviews has said that the team is capable of scoring goals Lambert puts his own spin on things for the media and to remain solid for the club and fans . In that instance he is doing his job correctly  by giving positive hope that any defeatist attitude. For me that's something that has to be respected.

I see. So he's not a coach/manager, he's Director of PR.

[pauliewalnuts]

Lambert in media interviews has said that the team is capable of scoring goals Lambert puts his own spin on things for the media and to remain solid for the club and fans . In that instance he is doing his job correctly  by giving positive hope that any defeatist attitude. For me that's something that has to be respected.

I agree it is doing his job correctly. Anyone expecting him to go on telly and say we're rubbish is always going to be disappointed. What else is he going to say?

The problem is, that is a small part of his job and nothing like the most important bit.

What about the part where he gets us getting results? Or at the very least, stops breaking records for rubbishness? Six games, zero points, one goal scored. That would be easier to understand if it was the first time we'd had an awful run, but it isn't, this is the norm - a few good results, followed by a prolonged collapse, repeated until we finish about 15th.

I was totally behind him after the first season, because he showed signs of what he wanted to do, and because I took account of the difficult circumstances, but over a year later, and we actually seem to be not only failing to get better, we are looking worse in many areas.

He's a nice bloke, came here with a decent record, and I feel sorry for him in many ways, but it really just isn't anything like good enough.

In his time here, he has put together enough dreadful statistics and runs of results to have been sacked four or five times at any other club, yet not only does he avoid the sack, he gets a new four year deal.

The only thing that worries me more than the competence of the manager is that of the chairman, and that is what makes the situation such a horrible mess.

[JUAN PABLO]

The thing is tom , he might get a two win streak somewhere and then we go on another awful run again.

I can't see that happening any time soon.

No


I'm hoping Burnley and Leicester.

Especially with the Leicester fans round Here.

[Mister E]

I am personally right on the brink of taking a Villa holiday until Lambert goes. 

I took that decision this season, Brian, and will only renew when he's gone.

[footyskillz]

Lambert in media interviews has said that the team is capable of scoring goals Lambert puts his own spin on things for the media and to remain solid for the club and fans . In that instance he is doing his job correctly  by giving positive hope that any defeatist attitude. For me that's something that has to be respected.

I agree it is doing his job correctly. Anyone expecting him to go on telly and say we're rubbish is always going to be disappointed. What else is he going to say?

The problem is, that is a small part of his job and nothing like the most important bit.

What about the part where he gets us getting results? Or at the very least, stops breaking records for rubbishness? Six games, zero points, one goal scored. That would be easier to understand if it was the first time we'd had an awful run, but it isn't, this is the norm - a few good results, followed by a prolonged collapse, repeated until we finish about 15th.

I was totally behind him after the first season, because he showed signs of what he wanted to do, and because I took account of the difficult circumstances, but over a year later, and we actually seem to be not only failing to get better, we are looking worse in many areas.

He's a nice bloke, came here with a decent record, and I feel sorry for him in many ways, but it really just isn't anything like good enough.

In his time here, he has put together enough dreadful statistics and runs of results to have been sacked four or five times at any other club, yet not only does he avoid the sack, he gets a new four year deal.

The only thing that worries me more than the competence of the manager is that of the chairman, and that is what makes the situation such a horrible mess.

I hear what you are saying and somewhat echo the anxieties of the manager / chairman situation. As I see the situation the running of Aston villa football club , as with any club , is having a major impact on how Lambert can operate. The MO is to keep Villa in the premier league. The agenda in close summer season saw a stratergy to bring back the bomb squad, bring in some expoereinced pros and established premiership / top level footballers to do a job. Also Lambert was allowed to bring in Keane someone who has managed , coached and majorly respected player. Lerner and his team went with these moves. Lambert has to manage the MO.. I think its higher above where an issue is rather than simply the management team. I cannot say that its a mess like yourself . I would argue that a mess could occur if a relegation came about this season. However even then the contingency plans are in place and the major assets can be sold. This is sad writing such a thing and I very much hope that we , Villa find form and purpose in our play and get the expected results. Currently its Lambert in charge nevertheless I would imagine 3 to 4 more defeats in a row in these next 4 fixtures then he would ultimately be moved out. I don't think villa will lose the next 3 or 4 matches.

[JUAN PABLO]

If villa lose the next 3/4 games , they will go down.

Lambert is underachieving with the squad he has got.

[Ads]

The thing is tom , he might get a two win streak somewhere and then we go on another awful run again.

I can't see that happening any time soon.

No


I'm hoping Burnley and Leicester.

Especially with the Leicester fans round Here.

Burnley, Leicester, Palace, Stripey Twats, Man United.

All very much beatable (Man United are bobbins away from home) but nothing in the past two and a bit years suggests we'll go on a run where we beat three or four in a row and remain unbeatean over a prolonged period.

[footyskillz]

I really don't want to be reactinary however losing the next 3 or 4 games meaning 9 to 10 defeats would see less understanding towards Lambert's managing than I currently have. As we are not currently bottom of the league or in the relegation zone I thinking I'm being fair. I'm hoping for a major up turn in fortunes and playing style which will come with a few victories ! Up the Villa !

[pauliewalnuts]

I hear what you are saying and somewhat echo the anxieties of the manager / chairman situation. As I see the situation the running of Aston villa football club , as with any club , is having a major impact on how Lambert can operate. The MO is to keep Villa in the premier league. The agenda in close summer season saw a stratergy to bring back the bomb squad, bring in some expoereinced pros and established premiership / top level footballers to do a job. Also Lambert was allowed to bring in Keane someone who has managed , coached and majorly respected player. Lerner and his team went with these moves. Lambert has to manage the MO.. I think its higher above where an issue is rather than simply the management team. I cannot say that its a mess like yourself . I would argue that a mess could occur if a relegation came about this season. However even then the contingency plans are in place and the major assets can be sold. This is sad writing such a thing and I very much hope that we , Villa find form and purpose in our play and get the expected results. Currently its Lambert in charge nevertheless I would imagine 3 to 4 more defeats in a row in these next 4 fixtures then he would ultimately be moved out. I don't think villa will lose the next 3 or 4 matches.

You're incredibly understanding. You are basically saying:

- Lambert has been able to bring in an experienced coach which will improve things, despite him having brought his coaching team in initially, who had about as much PL coaching experience as Keane has.
- we need to accept that our aim in life is to stay in the league, and no more
- it's not a mess until we go down
- don't worry, if we do go down, we can sell players to make up the money
- 6 defeats in a row (despite it being our third worst run ever, and our worst in the PL era) isn't worth worrying about, but 10 in a row would be

I think we all decide where our limits are re what is and what is not acceptable, and you are right, we are not bottom of the league, but the statistics for us, as well as the quality of play, are absolutely awful this season.