The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[mattjpa]

Whatever happens, Randys next decision is going to be the one that defines his tenure. There is a good chance oof us being beaten by West Ham. Then what? Lambert may have it in the locker to scrape 38 points and survive but the fact that we have only just managed that for two seasons in a row means its a big gamble. For me, the squad and playing style is no better than last year (thats not to say I dont think they are capable of being top ten with the right guidance) and the fact that the squad have had two long relegation battles in a row could just tip us over the edge. Im sorry but I cant see Lambert doing anything drastic enough to change our fortunes around. It seems that every week its a little change here, a little change there. Maybe Zog in for Gabby or Baker in for Clark, Ultimately never enough to take us away from the downward spiral were heading in. It works for the odd game or two, usually enough to relieve the mounting pressure on him but then the vicious cycle starts all over again.

For me its now a question of when. Why wait till after Southampton? Isnt there an international break after the West Ham game? Randy should be working behind the scenes sounding out the best candidate to come in on a rolling contract with a big bonus for premiership survival. If that is Tony Pulis and we need to win ugly for the rest of the season then so be it. If we dont survive before a buyer is found there may not be a way back......

[Richard E]

And if there's no buyer? Let's face it, nothing's happened since we were put on the market and apparently the owner is interested and focussed again.

You probably know as well as I do that Lerner saying he was "interested and focussed" again was PR bullshit designed to keep the fans quiet for a bit and give him a bit of time. Spending £7m in the summer was proof enough he couldn't give a damn.

No, it must be true, it was in the Daily Express - I'll get my coat... 

[not3bad]

So, if you don't want Lambert and you don't want Pulis. Who do you want?

To wait for the sale and appoint somebody to fit in with a longer term plan. I agree with Ads in that I think Lambert can keep us in this division, he's done it twice before with a thinner squad, so it's just a question of holding our nerve.

Do you not think that's a bit risky considering we've only just escaped relegation in both of Lambert's seasons?  At least with Pullis Stoke were pretty much always mid table and never really looked in trouble. Yes the football was bad, but let's face it it won't be any worse than we're getting now.

[Ads]

I'd say we've only survived the last few seasons as the teams below us have been worse, you can't go on like that forever

Man City only won the league last year because the sides below them were worse.

Man City don't have the spectre of relegation hanging over them if they're even a tiny bit worse than they were last season.

And?

[Ads]

So, if you don't want Lambert and you don't want Pulis. Who do you want?

To wait for the sale and appoint somebody to fit in with a longer term plan. I agree with Ads in that I think Lambert can keep us in this division, he's done it twice before with a thinner squad, so it's just a question of holding our nerve.

I don't think it is that simple. Hold our nerve and hope he keeps us up, fair enough.

But then what? If he gets us fifteenth, say, again, that's three fifteen placed finishes and no further evidence beyond points of general improvement.

What do we do then?

Not repalce him with somebody like Pulis who may be able to get us finishing 13th playing football as equally poor.

[saunders_heroes]

I'd say we've only survived the last few seasons as the teams below us have been worse, you can't go on like that forever

Man City only won the league last year because the sides below them were worse.

Man City don't have the spectre of relegation hanging over them if they're even a tiny bit worse than they were last season.

And?

The same could have been said to you when you originally brought up Man City.

[saunders_heroes]

Pulis plays football that makes our eyes bleed. David Moyes is available and he should be our new manager. For once Lerner should do the right thing before it's too late.

[Ads]

I'd say we've only survived the last few seasons as the teams below us have been worse, you can't go on like that forever

Man City only won the league last year because the sides below them were worse.

Man City don't have the spectre of relegation hanging over them if they're even a tiny bit worse than they were last season.

And?

The same could have been said to you when you originally brought up Man City.

My comment was show what a daft point he was making. We only won the European Cup because Bayern Munich weren't good enough. The reality was that we were the best side in Europe at the time and we were the 15th best side in England last season.

What the threat of relegation to Man City has to do with it, I am not too sure.

[Ads]

Pulis plays football that makes our eyes bleed. David Moyes is available and he should be our new manager. For once Lerner should do the right thing before it's too late.

I don't want Moyes, if we're going to make a change, lets make it a significant one and break away from workman like football based on hard work.

[saunders_heroes]

I'd say we've only survived the last few seasons as the teams below us have been worse, you can't go on like that forever

Man City only won the league last year because the sides below them were worse.

Man City don't have the spectre of relegation hanging over them if they're even a tiny bit worse than they were last season.

And?

The same could have been said to you when you originally brought up Man City.

My comment was show what a daft point he was making. We only won the European Cup because Bayern Munich weren't good enough. The reality was that we were the best side in Europe at the time and we were the 15th best side in England last season.

What the threat of relegation to Man City has to do with it, I am not too sure.

There's no threat of relegation to Man City. If they're just a little bit worse than last season they won't be champions but they'll ceratinly be playing CL football next season. If we're just a bit worse than last season we'll probably be playing championship football next year. I know you love to play these things down and pretend things ain't so bad at the Villa but this is a reality. It's about time you realised how crap things are at Villa Park.

[Ads]

I'd say we've only survived the last few seasons as the teams below us have been worse, you can't go on like that forever

Man City only won the league last year because the sides below them were worse.

Man City don't have the spectre of relegation hanging over them if they're even a tiny bit worse than they were last season.

And?

The same could have been said to you when you originally brought up Man City.

My comment was show what a daft point he was making. We only won the European Cup because Bayern Munich weren't good enough. The reality was that we were the best side in Europe at the time and we were the 15th best side in England last season.

What the threat of relegation to Man City has to do with it, I am not too sure.

There's no threat of relegation to Man City. If they're just a little bit worse than last season they won't be champions but they'll ceratinly be playing CL football next season. If we're just a bit worse than last season we'll probably be playing championship football next year. I know you love to play these things down and pretend things ain't so bad at the Villa but this is a reality. It's about time you realised how crap things are at Villa Park.

That argument suggests that the league retains a constant level of quality, which is plainly not the case. It can go up, but you can also be poorer than you were the previous season yet still maintain a level or even increase your position, because your battle is with the other 19 of this year, not last.

That's a general point, but I think this season it can be a specific one, as the quality in this league has degraded dramatically. Leicester, Burnley and QPR are abysmal and Palace have got worse, with Sundelrand no better. Year on year we're seeing a congestion of 10 plus teams who could all be in a relegation mix. The upper echelons of the table also expose the league for the sham it is. Only Chelsea can compete in Europe, the rest look frankly meadicore at times. There was half a billion worth of squads available in the Manchester derby and neither side look like they play the same sport as their peers in Spain or Germany.

If you could also be a sport and refrain from projecting your opinion as "reality", that would be nice.

[saunders_heroes]

You should become a politician, Ads.

[pauliewalnuts]

If you work from the premise that "team A who finished in 15th is better than team B who finished 17th, because the league shows that is the case" then you are totally ruling out the effect of luck, the impact of things like injuries, matters which are beyond a club's control.

That's fair enough, it is one way of looking at it, but if that is your standpoint, then you can't really be making judgements on us based on luck - so no "I want to see what we're like when Benteke is back", for example.

[Clark W Griswold]

But the reality is that we were not far off relegation the last 3 seasons, are close to the bottom now and that is indeed crap. So unless you think the last three seasons didn't happen in reality, or you consider being close to relegation plus early cup exits and humiliation are not crap, I think the assertion that things are currently crap is reality in most fans minds. :-)

[aev]

We keep losing football games and it appears that there is no positive progress on the pitch.

This is the nub of the issue.