The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Legion]

A few more shots on target would also be nice! 12 so far.

[N'ZMAV]

A general improvement in every single aspect of our game is needed. No-one is impressing a great deal.

[Rudy65]

A few more shots on target would also be nice! 12 so far.

A few more shots of any kind would be good. You never know, one might actually go in

[Toronto Villa]

We had a lovely cracking start and that's been followed by defeats to 4 of last year's top five. We should, of course, be aiming to beat them but let's be realistic.

Drummond, I have always agreed with much of what you have posted. My issue is not the defeats but the manner of them. Our approach to each game in this difficult stretch, Liverpool aside has been to "allow" the other team to have the ball and hope to win it back and attack. We simply did not need to approach the games like that. We could have taken a far more positive approach. Yes, there is every chance that by doing so our GD might have been the same, maybe a worse, but we also might have scored a few and been in some games as opposed to not being in them from the start.

What has frustrated me for a long time about Villa under Lambert is not so much the various poor results. It's the fact that I have seen on more than a few occasions how we can play much, much better. After this length of time there is still no consistency in our approach to games and a willingness to play a certain way, and with a certain attitude to try and win games. It's there and then it's gone. It will come back and then it will be gone again. Very frustrating and difficult to get behind.

[Drummond]

I agree TV, my point though, is that we started well (in terms of results before anyone pipes up), and had some great results.

We were unfortunate against Arsenal, and played off the park in the other games.

My point is that given the fixtures, the lack of our main centre forward, centre half (and Captain) and central midfielder and playing against the best teams out there, we just weren't going to be there.

We're just not good enough and I'm not happy or content, but given who those games were against, I just think it's wrong to have a go. I'll agree with the viewpoint in a month or so if we've only got a couple more points. Take tomorrow, I for one think we should be going all out for a win; nothing less. If we don't I'll be concerned.

I agree it's frustrating and difficult too. I'd much rather we played a smooth passing game, an attacking one.

[steffo]

Lambert's football is basically a 'poor mans Chelsea' same system (narrow) alas, we do not have the quality. Chelsea have two full backs who can defend and attack. We are now into Lambert's third season - count the full backs he has used.... a new one every now and again trying to find the outlet.

His outlet is the fullbacks as our attacking force. True (non-defensive) managers will employ full backs to defend. Wingers to attack.

He sold our last winger....I fear for Grealish.

[Steve67]

Dour manager, rubbish tactics, poor quality, wank owner. Hmm, good times.

[brian green]

Unfortunately tonight's game is the acid test. Is Drum right and our slide is due to top class opposition and the absence of Benteke and Vlaar or is TV right and our slide is due to a submcleishian mind set of defend and hope for a break?
By tonight the picture may well seem to be clearer. Perhaps a big sigh if relief, perhaps more groans of despair.
Regrettably the divisions will continue because much of the pessimism of people like me is fed by us ever getting into a state where a game against a team like QPR is such a formidable and potentially crushing obstacle.

[Mister E]

His outlet is the fullbacks as our attacking force. True (non-defensive) managers will employ full backs to defend. Wingers to attack.

It's not quite that simple.
Using the fullbacks as a legitimate method of attack is fine but it requires the rest of the team to be tuned in and capable of playing in such a system. Are the centre backs suitably mobile? Do they read the game well? Do midfielders cover when the FB are rampaging forward? Can the FB deliver decent balls into the box? Do the midfielders have the engine and the skill both to defend and play the cunning passes into the channels or out wide? Do the MF players score regularly?

If you look at teams like Chelski, they have the quality across the pitch to play this - and other - systems pretty well (they do not always employ out-and-out wingers).

We do not do it well at all, although we sometimes can.
Two home games last season exemplified how we got badly caught out playing this approach poorly: Stoke and Wet Spam.

[Dave]

Unfortunately tonight's game is the acid test. Is Drum right and our slide is due to top class opposition and the absence of Benteke and Vlaar or is TV right and our slide is due to a submcleishian mind set of defend and hope for a break?

Does it have to be just one or the other?

[paul_e]

His outlet is the fullbacks as our attacking force. True (non-defensive) managers will employ full backs to defend. Wingers to attack.

It's not quite that simple.
Using the fullbacks as a legitimate method of attack is fine but it requires the rest of the team to be tuned in and capable of playing in such a system. Are the centre backs suitably mobile? Do they read the game well? Do midfielders cover when the FB are rampaging forward? Can the FB deliver decent balls into the box? Do the midfielders have the engine and the skill both to defend and play the cunning passes into the channels or out wide? Do the MF players score regularly?

If you look at teams like Chelski, they have the quality across the pitch to play this - and other - systems pretty well (they do not always employ out-and-out wingers).

We do not do it well at all, although we sometimes can.
Two home games last season exemplified how we got badly caught out playing this approach poorly: Stoke and Wet Spam.

Much more importantly if you're going to use the fullbacks like this you need to be able to get them into space in the final third and then you need players to find space in the box.

To address the former; because we're so deep defensively the fullbacks are getting the ball on halfway and being asked to make things happen from there, if you look at the sides playing this way well their fullbacks get the ball 20-30yards further up the pitch after defenders have been pulled out of position, either because the inside forward has made a dart in behind or because the play has been switched with a crossfield pass.  We need to find a way to get the whole team 10yards further up the pitch so that the runs start to matter and start to create gaps.

On the latter our midfield don't get into the box Gabby is always on his heels and Weimann has often dropped too deep and can't make up the ground.  Now that Benteke is back our fullbacks have a genuine target and that will make a difference but we really need to get Gabby and Weimann more involved in the box and 1 of the midfielders needs to be looking to join in.  Aside from that we need to be more willing to play in the centre of the pitch in general to create more space out wide.

As an aside from this point the other thing we desperately need to start doing is working on hitting the target. We all know the 12 shots on target in 8 games stat but behind that we've had 62 shots in total, so our shooting accuracy is less than 20%, that's absolutely pathetic.

[PeterWithesShin]

His outlet is the fullbacks as our attacking force. True (non-defensive) managers will employ full backs to defend. Wingers to attack.

Guess that means Brian Little wasn't a true manager for us then.

[saunders_heroes]

His outlet is the fullbacks as our attacking force. True (non-defensive) managers will employ full backs to defend. Wingers to attack.

Guess that means Brian Little wasn't a true manager for us then.

Bit of a difference though - Little played wingbacks in a back 5. They were practically midfielders.

[PeterWithesShin]

Same premise though, the majority of width and attacking play comes from your full/wing backs. Their primary job is still as defenders.

[kippaxvilla2]

There is also the point that Alan Wright and Gary Charles were much better at it.