The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Louzie0]

140 years. That takes some doing.
We've been dire in the past, gone down a division or two, but worse than that? With fewer games?

I really like him, think he has had a terrible job description and now want him to go as far away as possible please. Good luck.

140 years? Good grief.

Except, we didn't go down (somewhat miraculously),
Don't get me wrong: the record this season has been truly awful. And, it is time for a change.

But, we didn't get relegated.

Actually no, but left to him, we could have been. Twice.
I have been all sweetness and light up until now, until I realised just what he had accomplished. I suppose you would say, but he didn't get us sent down twice.

Well, that works both ways. He has sailed close to the wind and he has brought the good ship Aston Villa into harbour, twice.

There are other clubs coming up from the Championship for next season.

Are you going to bet on him a third time and really, is that good enough for the Villa?

[Chris Smith]

140 years. That takes some doing.
We've been dire in the past, gone down a division or two, but worse than that? With fewer games?

I really like him, think he has had a terrible job description and now want him to go as far away as possible please. Good luck.

140 years? Good grief.

Except, we didn't go down (somewhat miraculously),
Don't get me wrong: the record this season has been truly awful. And, it is time for a change.

But, we didn't get relegated.

Actually no, but left to him, we could have been. Twice.
I have been all sweetness and light up until now, until I realised just what he had accomplished. I suppose you would say, but he didn't get us sent down twice.

Well, that works both ways. He has sailed close to the wind and he has brought the good ship Aston Villa into harbour, twice.

There are other clubs coming up from the Championship for next season.

Are you going to bet on him a third time and really, is that good enough for the Villa?

His two predecessors did exactly the same, suggests that there might be more to it than just the manager.

[pauliewalnuts]

The fairy on that rock cake of dross is that the bumming we took from the League 1 side denied us a Wembley final.

I was actually talking about this season's lower league bumming (Sheffield United) rather than last season's bumming (Bradford City).

[pauliewalnuts]

140 years. That takes some doing.
We've been dire in the past, gone down a division or two, but worse than that? With fewer games?

I really like him, think he has had a terrible job description and now want him to go as far away as possible please. Good luck.

140 years? Good grief.

Except, we didn't go down (somewhat miraculously),
Don't get me wrong: the record this season has been truly awful. And, it is time for a change.

But, we didn't get relegated.

Actually no, but left to him, we could have been. Twice.
I have been all sweetness and light up until now, until I realised just what he had accomplished. I suppose you would say, but he didn't get us sent down twice.

Well, that works both ways. He has sailed close to the wind and he has brought the good ship Aston Villa into harbour, twice.

There are other clubs coming up from the Championship for next season.

Are you going to bet on him a third time and really, is that good enough for the Villa?

His two predecessors did exactly the same, suggests that there might be more to it than just the manager.

That's definitely true, it is not just about Lambert.

The financial restrictions have made it very difficult indeed. The problem is that this season, Lambert has made it even worse than it needed to be.

We're never going to amount to very much if this wages regime continues, there's no escaping that. However, even given those low expectations, Lambert still managed to under perform this season.

[Chris Smith]

Agreed, Paulie, but if all that changes is the bloke picking the team we're in for more of the same which at some point will end in relegation. Sacking the manager, under those terms, will be nothing more than a sop.

[pauliewalnuts]

Agreed, Paulie, but if all that changes is the bloke picking the team we're in for more of the same which at some point will end in relegation. Sacking the manager, under those terms, will be nothing more than a sop.

I pretty much agree with that. A new bloke might do slightly better than Lambert under those circumstances, but like you said, working under those terms means that we're eventually going to go down

There might be a few more seasons of bobbing around at the arse end making up the numbers, but there would be an inevitability about going down at some point.

By far the most important thing is either a change in ownership, or a considerable change in recruitment policy. Without one of those (and I am assuming the first would mean the second happening, too) we're going absolutely nowhere.

[Louzie0]

TSM , yes. (Reply to Chris Smith, a couple of posts above)

Looking at the long term manager before him, I don't know that Gerard Houllier had that in mind.

However, if you are saying that the manager was operating this season at the parameters set by the owner, fine. Except that there are examples of clubs in this Premier league season which had given up and were re-ignited by a change in manager and I don't think (for example) that Sunderland's or Stoke's or QPR's players are that superior. 

Villa had the advantage of a continuing manager and a squad who had been recruited and trained by him, this season, as distinct from the last. I know there were ridiculous injuries to key players and maybe that is what PL would say made the difference.

However, what are players doing in the squad if they can't play at the required level?
That's down to the manager. And his backer.

[cdward]

For all that Paul Lambert is guilty of during his time with us; he will probably be remembered more for the shafting we took from Bradford than anything else.  That will always be held against him.

Whatever happens in a one off cup game can always see bigger teams getting beaten by the underdog, but to get beaten over 2 legs home and away, by a 3rd division team, is pretty dire. Add to that Millwall and Sheffield Utd, and you realise it is not a one off.

[pauliewalnuts]

Louzie, I think you're right, in that there's no doubt we have had injuries and been hampered by a very restrictive recruitment policy. Those have had a limiting effect on how well we can do.

However, the level achieved, and the quality on the pitch, has been considerably below even that poor level.

[Louzie0]

Louzie, I think you're right, in that there's no doubt we have had injuries and been hampered by a very restrictive recruitment policy. Those have had a limiting effect on how well we can do.

However, the level achieved, and the quality on the pitch, has been considerably below even that poor level.

I agree with you and think that there was room to do better, as I posted but maybe a bit out of synch.

[lovejoy]

140 years. That takes some doing.
We've been dire in the past, gone down a division or two, but worse than that? With fewer games?

I really like him, think he has had a terrible job description and now want him to go as far away as possible please. Good luck.

140 years? Good grief.

Except, we didn't go down (somewhat miraculously),
Don't get me wrong: the record this season has been truly awful. And, it is time for a change.

But, we didn't get relegated.

You can't just take a subset of our results to make a balanced judgement. Just like saying our results against top 4 have been great.

I'm just concerned that without significant investment no decent manager would touch us with a barge poll. Better the devil you know.

[Chris Smith]

TSM , yes. (Reply to Chris Smith, a couple of posts above)

Looking at the long term manager before him, I don't know that Gerard Houllier had that in mind.

However, if you are saying that the manager was operating this season at the parameters set by the owner, fine. Except that there are examples of clubs in this Premier league season which had given up and were re-ignited by a change in manager and I don't think (for example) that Sunderland's or Stoke's or QPR's players are that superior. 

Villa had the advantage of a continuing manager and a squad who had been recruited and trained by him, this season, as distinct from the last. I know there were ridiculous injuries to key players and maybe that is what PL would say made the difference.

However, what are players doing in the squad if they can't play at the required level?
That's down to the manager. And his backer.

I don't think QPR, punching very much above there weight in the transfer market due to rich backers, or Stoke, where Pulis had created a strong framework to work from, are good comparators to our situation. Similarly, the three teams to be relegated all changed their manager this season, so again of itself it is no guarantee of anything.

[mike]

The stark unvarnished truth told by the tables is that Lambert is as bad a manager as McLeish.   Even if you dismiss the numbers, I have seen over half of all the games under their stewardship and it has felt every bit as piss poor for the last two seasons as it was in the two previous ones.

Yes, and the club told us that what McLeish achieved wasn't good enough for Aston Villa. Maybe they've reduced their ambition since making that pronouncement. I would think McLeish must be shaking his head at why he was vilified and sacked and Lambert is praised to the hilt by Lerner. I was always adamant that the hatred for McLeish (and many will still only call him TSM) was nothing to do with his previous job. The fact that 40% of people want him to keep his job after very similar performance makes me think I was wrong.

[pauliewalnuts]

The stark unvarnished truth told by the tables is that Lambert is as bad a manager as McLeish.   Even if you dismiss the numbers, I have seen over half of all the games under their stewardship and it has felt every bit as piss poor for the last two seasons as it was in the two previous ones.

Yes, and the club told us that what McLeish achieved wasn't good enough for Aston Villa. Maybe they've reduced their ambition since making that pronouncement. I would think McLeish must be shaking his head at why he was vilified and sacked and Lambert is praised to the hilt by Lerner. I was always adamant that the hatred for McLeish (and many will still only call him TSM) was nothing to do with his previous job. The fact that 40% of people want him to keep his job after very similar performance makes me think I was wrong.

I think, reading Lerner's statement the other day, that regarding Lambert, it was pretty clear that, if Lerner stays, Lambert will stay too. He was practically making excuses for him, it came across so clearly.

I also think it read like a job reference for new owners.

[brontebilly]

140 years. That takes some doing.
We've been dire in the past, gone down a division or two, but worse than that? With fewer games?

I really like him, think he has had a terrible job description and now want him to go as far away as possible please. Good luck.

140 years? Good grief.

Except, we didn't go down (somewhat miraculously),
Don't get me wrong: the record this season has been truly awful. And, it is time for a change.

But, we didn't get relegated.

You can't just take a subset of our results to make a balanced judgement. Just like saying our results against top 4 have been great.

I'm just concerned that without significant investment no decent manager would touch us with a barge poll. Better the devil you know.

That may be the case but we pay our managers very good money, plus our wage bill is pretty high. If the club can pay off the deadwood then there is plenty of scope to bring in good players. Athletico Madrid seem to manage it ok on prob the same budget as us. Throw 20m-30m of capital investment in the right players this summer and we will have a lot of interest in revitalising the club. We need to stay away from bidding wars for bang average English players like Steven Caulker, thats one way to avoid the madness returning. Bring in Howedes next to Okore and we might have one of the best defensive partnerships in the league next year.

We must stay away from British managers though. We have to go a different way and try Tuchel or the numerous other very good European coaches that are being suggested. However EPL experience is a must have on the CV for our moron chairman.

If the status quo is maintained this summer i.e. Lerner, Lambert, Faulkner and the continuation of the yellow pack nonsense that has engulfed our club, then we are certs for relegation next year.