The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Big Dick Edwards]

Guzan is one of the top keepers in the Premier League. We'd certainly have been relegated without him last season.

[supertom]

Looking for a new manager, you have to consider where you want to finish in the table.  I would say you could break that down to:

1. Top 4
2. 5 to 8
3. 9 to 12
4. 13 to 17
5. Assume nobody wants somebody that will finish in the bottom 3 places

To this you need to add how much money we will need to get from where we are now to each bracket above.

To this you need to assess how much money a new manager would want for putting his reputation on the line to achieve the expectations.  On this point, how many managers walk away from Villa with a better reputation than when they arrived.  Probably only SGT Mk I in modern (post 1980) times.

My thoughts are:

1.  £200m plus
2.  £100m
3.  £50m
4.  £25m
5.  less than £15m

Now try and match the managers to the above criteria and add in the little thing of an owner coming up with the money to match the dreams of the supporters, or should that be fantasies.

In my opinion we will be lucky to hit level 3 and that then limits us to relatively ambitious unknowns if we want brighter football and potentially a better future.  Of course we could play it safe and go for a known PL manager whose ambition is to be happy to stay in the division and play dull, uninspired football and continue to finish in the bottom half of the table.

I think with the current manager 4 or perhaps 3 are possible with the money.  Again, in my opinion, Moyes fits level 2.

The biggest problem we have at the present time, is not the manager but the money.

I'd largely agree with that. I would say though that 25 million spent this summer could comfortably get us 9th-12th, perhaps a shade higher. Under Lambert? Probably not, but under a better manager we could tack on 10-15 points with a spend of 25 mill. That would see us comfortable and more important well clear of all this relegation battle shit.

[SoccerHQ]

Vlaar and Guzan aren't Premier League quality? come on now.

Nothing more than average. I think it's because we've been that poor over the last few years that even average players stand out to the fans.

I might disagree with you about Guzan but I think you make a very valid point more generally SH. I always thought that about Kyle Walker who looked a world beater playing for us and, whilst still good when he went back to Spurs, has never really looked anywhere near the player he seemed at Villa. I suspect we've been guilty of overrating our better players for some time now and it's only to be expected really

Walker has seemed to regress at Spurs but he's still a first choice at a top 5 club and won young player of the year award in 2012.

[Clampy]

Guzan is one of the top keepers in the Premier League. We'd certainly have been relegated without him last season.

Agree with that, he's been really good.

[supertom]

Guzan is one of the top keepers in the Premier League. We'd certainly have been relegated without him last season.

And possibly this season. Our defence has shipped less goals this season but I wouldn't say it's looked all that much more solid. I think once again, Guzan has dragged us through many games. He made a great save at 1-1 yesterday. Had Hull taken the lead it may have killed us. Likewise his catching was superb and took pressure off us at key moments.

Class act.

[SoccerHQ]

I think anyone who reckons Guzan is "bog standard" is never going to be happy, frankly, so there's not much point arguing with them on that.

I'll be happy when Lerner and Lambert have gone. Then we can start getting rid of the shit they packed the team out with.

Vlaar has been better than he was last season. Guzan has been great considering the defence in front of him.

He's definitely improved on last season, but last season he was awful so it wouldn't take much to improve on that.

Why the love in for Collins and Dunne though? Did you miss the period between 2010-12?

[Olneythelonely]

I'll be happy when Lerner and Lambert have gone. Then we can start getting rid of the shit they packed the team out with.

I don't reckon you will be.

[saunders_heroes]

I think anyone who reckons Guzan is "bog standard" is never going to be happy, frankly, so there's not much point arguing with them on that.

I'll be happy when Lerner and Lambert have gone. Then we can start getting rid of the shit they packed the team out with.

Vlaar has been better than he was last season. Guzan has been great considering the defence in front of him.

He's definitely improved on last season, but last season he was awful so it wouldn't take much to improve on that.

Why the love in for Collins and Dunne though? Did you miss the period between 2010-12?

What love in? I can't remember the last time I mentioned them. Tell you what though I'd rather that pair in the team than the abominations that are Baker and Clark, and even over Vlaar as well.

[saunders_heroes]

I'll be happy when Lerner and Lambert have gone. Then we can start getting rid of the shit they packed the team out with.

I don't reckon you will be.

Doubting Thomas.

[Toronto Villa]

I think anyone who reckons Guzan is "bog standard" is never going to be happy, frankly, so there's not much point arguing with them on that.

I'll be happy when Lerner and Lambert have gone. Then we can start getting rid of the shit they packed the team out with.

Vlaar has been better than he was last season. Guzan has been great considering the defence in front of him.

He's definitely improved on last season, but last season he was awful so it wouldn't take much to improve on that.

Why the love in for Collins and Dunne though? Did you miss the period between 2010-12?

What love in? I can't remember the last time I mentioned them. Tell you what though I'd rather that pair in the team than the abominations that are Baker and Clark, and even over Vlaar as well.

Maybe you'd rate Vlaar a bit more if went out on the lash, chinned Sid Cowans and threw him over a table. Or maybe he could have taken the entire season off and miraculously turned up in Brazil for his national side.

Seriously though, I just don't see how you could forget the comedy era of Collins and Dunne.

[mr woo]

I doubted Guzan at first too. I failed to see that he did anything out of the ordinary.

However I now think he is a genuinely good keeper and certainly has given great value for money.

I do question his organisation though. For example, his failure to spot and point out the free man at Hulls free kick on saturday. Not for the first time either.

[pauliewalnuts]

Vlaar and Guzan aren't Premier League quality? come on now.

Nothing more than average. I think it's because we've been that poor over the last few years that even average players stand out to the fans.

I think it's more likely to be that some people have spent so much time going on about how shit everything is, they can't see decent players when they're there.

Honestly, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I do think that you just dig a hole where absolutely everything is as shit as it is possible to be. It's hard to take some of the stuff you post seriously when you're so entrenched.

[SoccerHQ]

I think anyone who reckons Guzan is "bog standard" is never going to be happy, frankly, so there's not much point arguing with them on that.

I'll be happy when Lerner and Lambert have gone. Then we can start getting rid of the shit they packed the team out with.

Vlaar has been better than he was last season. Guzan has been great considering the defence in front of him.

He's definitely improved on last season, but last season he was awful so it wouldn't take much to improve on that.

Why the love in for Collins and Dunne though? Did you miss the period between 2010-12?

What love in? I can't remember the last time I mentioned them. Tell you what though I'd rather that pair in the team than the abominations that are Baker and Clark, and even over Vlaar as well.

In the Dunne thread when he left you were criticising people slagging him off saying he was an excellent centre half for us. Pretty sure you were critical when we sold Collins aswell.

You must have an agenda against Vlaar if you think his performances this season have been poorer than what those two were producing in their final two seasons here.

[SoccerHQ]

http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=47744.510

[peter w]

Reading some of that thread reminds me of how much Villa kicks hurt my eyes after the first 6 words, so I always gave up.