The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Ads]

It all feels very messy at the moment. Even if we pick up form/results wise, and a mid-table team incapable of going up or down in the league is ideal opposition for this, then it will still feel messy.

[Mister E]

Agreed last summer's spending was poor. Why bring in a load of players like Luna, Tonev, and Helenius, and barely use them? Obviously as it transpired, Luna was proven to be well short of what's required at this level and the other two struggled to settle. However, we've got our own academy producing decent youngsters who could have saved us a few bob, and possibly settled faster than the above (add Sylla).

I don't think age is that much of an issue. Sterling has settled well at Liverpool and is only 18. Barkley at Everton is about the same age. Now they might debatably be better than what we're producing, but Liverpool are challenging for the title, Everton for top 4. For our level, which you'd hope was mid-table obscurity in terms of expecation from the board this year, I think we can produce players for that. We have a track record. I'd trade Sylla, Tonev, Helenius and Luna for one half decent player, and use our own youngsters to make up the numbers for the other 3.

It's the lack of gametime for Helenius that does my head in.

Regarding our use of homegrown talent, I've thought long and hard about this: is it that we lack the players most likely to make it at EPL level? Or is it that our introduction of them into the first team fold has been consistently mismanaged by successive managers?
Or maybe it's just poor coaching standards throughout the club ...

[Concrete John]

Did Lambert really say in an interview last week that Villa fans were unrealistic in what they want to achieve?

I was told this second-hand and haven't seen it anywhere.

Not in those words
“The history and ­expectancy is there, but there has to be that realism that this is where it is at the minute,” said Lambert.

“There’s a lot of stuff people don’t see. Am I happy where we are? No. Did I come to Aston Villa to do this? No.

“This club should be higher, there is no two ways about it. It has great tradition and great ­pedigree.

“I knew the first few years would be really hard because of what we had to do. I knew that, but we have to get this club
up there.

“I’m certainly not sitting here thinking it’s good. We have to do everything we can to get this club up the ladder. It has to be.”

If you want him gone, then nothing in that will change your mind.

However, if you don't, or are sitting on the fence, then it's slightly encouraging in that there does seem to be a plan of sorts.  It doesn't forgive his failings over the past 2 years, but reading between the lines he's obviously here becuase of a promise of better funding to come.

[not3bad]

is it that we lack the players most likely to make it at EPL level? Or is it that our introduction of them into the first team fold has been consistently mismanaged by successive managers?
Or maybe it's just poor coaching standards throughout the club ...

A very important question. One cannot help but wonder how, say Gary Gardner would be doing now if he came through at Everton or Southampton.

[Holte L2]

Injuries are a valid reason for lack of progress this season.

Three players Lambert has spent the most money on: Benteke, Kozak, Okore. That's about half of his total spend. Two of them were out for a season and the other struggled for form when he returned from injury.

I'm surprised people think it's a load of bollocks that he might have tried to sign other players and the deals couldn't be done. Seems very likely to me. Looks like he might have been trying to loan players like Barry and Lukaku, but we couldn't even muster an agreeable half-wage with their clubs.

There's not much difference in the quality of the bottom 12 teams in this league. We are spending an amount which puts us somewhere in this group of crap teams who are unlikely to win anything or make any progress. We have young players, many who are not good enough to play for a team in the top half of the Premier League. They are going to be inconsistent which is why after beating Chelsea we've lost four on the trot.

I'd like the manager to be able to galvanise his players to prevent such a run. It looks like they thought we were safe after beating Chelsea and going 1-0 up against Stoke and switched off for the summer. I think a lot of fans thought we were safe, too.

The home form has been pathetic too, something the manager should be doing something to improve, but even though it has been record-breakingly bad this season, it wasn't much better under McLeish, Houillier, or O'Neill relative to the money he had to spend.

We will get a few more points this season. We won't be relegated, and Lambert will still be our manager next season.

Completley agree Bob. I feel sorry for Lambert to an extent, becuase he's not being given adequate tools to do the job.  It's a big summer for the board.  I do hope they back the manager in the transfer maket.

[Ads]

Whatever happens in the summer, there needs to be a positive sign of intent. Be that backing Lambert with funds or a new manager with funds. Seasons like this are unacceptable with no sense that its going to eventually get better.

[mr underhill]

 Randy won't invest any more that he has in the previous three seasons imho. We're still loosing huge sums of money and the wage bill is still too high for him with people like Hutton, Bent and Given still on the pay roll. You don't go through four years of cost cutting to suddenly increase spending again. He's running Villa purely as a business nowadays and from where I'm sitting, it's a business he's lost interest and passion in and one he wants to sell, hence the limited investment in players and infrastructure. As for Lambert he's history

[Clampy]

The club (well, Paul Faulkner) has spoken.

http://bit.ly/1ihxu6A

[Legion]

I wish they'd do something about the blue paint over the lions.

[Concrete John]

I think we've reached a 'back him or sack' him situation with Lambert.  £40m isn't a small amount of money, but spread over the amount of players that were needed, while also needing to bring down the wagebill, has meant he's been largely shopping at the bottom end of the market.

£30m players obviously aren't on our radar, but if he can operate in that middle ground, which is where he got the likes of Benteke and Okore from, then I can see things improving.   

[supertom]

Agreed last summer's spending was poor. Why bring in a load of players like Luna, Tonev, and Helenius, and barely use them? Obviously as it transpired, Luna was proven to be well short of what's required at this level and the other two struggled to settle. However, we've got our own academy producing decent youngsters who could have saved us a few bob, and possibly settled faster than the above (add Sylla).

I don't think age is that much of an issue. Sterling has settled well at Liverpool and is only 18. Barkley at Everton is about the same age. Now they might debatably be better than what we're producing, but Liverpool are challenging for the title, Everton for top 4. For our level, which you'd hope was mid-table obscurity in terms of expecation from the board this year, I think we can produce players for that. We have a track record. I'd trade Sylla, Tonev, Helenius and Luna for one half decent player, and use our own youngsters to make up the numbers for the other 3.

It's the lack of gametime for Helenius that does my head in.

Regarding our use of homegrown talent, I've thought long and hard about this: is it that we lack the players most likely to make it at EPL level? Or is it that our introduction of them into the first team fold has been consistently mismanaged by successive managers?
Or maybe it's just poor coaching standards throughout the club ...

Difficult to say really. We must be doing something right because we regularly do well in Youth tournaments and the U-21/reserve league. Not only that but our youth sides tend to be raised to play good football.

If you look at Albrighton for example. He'd been deemed all but surplus. However he's come back into the fold in the last 5 months or so and regularly looked one of our best players.

For the life of me I can't see why we'd sign and play someone like Jordan Bowery, who struggled to stand out in League 2, when we're producing good quality youngsters. Even Grealish for example, who's very young, is looking pretty good at League 1 level. That might be league 1, but for me that puts him above Bowery for example.
Certainly though, given the form of Robinson for the u-21's, he should have been given some game time in the last couple of months. Ease him in, get him in among the side. He's scoring for fun and looking fired up. I'd wager him to be more ready to step up than Bowery, or even Helenius who it appears is really struggling to settle to life in England (aside from his recent injury struggles).

We've produced plenty of players who succeed in the top two divisions. For me I see no reason to buy cheap punts from leagues below that domestically, bar someone incredibly talented. Likewise buying from the Polish league, Danish league or French second division? That's, if we're being generous, Champ equivalent at best but more likely League 1 standard. I think we've wasted money on a lot of these players. Money that could have been cobbled together on one or two more readily capable players for this level. One of two more Vlaar level signings.
Even if you only spend 1-2 mill on these players. You buy 5-6 of them, or just seem a way off from being Premiership quality, it soon adds up.

I think our academy can easily produce players better than the majority of Lamberts signings. I base that on the track record of players we've produced, whether still here, or plying their trade in other Prem or Championship clubs. Some might be average players, a lot of Lamberts signings are mediocre. I don't buy the value for money argument either. Because Sylla and Tonev are dirt cheap, doesn't make them value for money. What they are, are players who aren't good enough for the top flight, and more than likely never will be. They're taking up valuable squad space we could be giving to players we've raised in our academy.

If we don't use our own youngsters we might as well get rid of the academy. What's the point?
 

[garyfouroaks]

Sadly,I hold out no prospect that another manager will do signally better.

With Lerner unwilling to compete at the top, this is pretty much how it is going to be. When you see how Spurs have sp spectacularly spunked £100m to no effect, you can understand his caution.

[PGW]

The club (well, Paul Faulkner) has spoken.

http://bit.ly/1ihxu6A

Load of bollocks - what he is really saying is that 'Ticket sales for the Southampton game are really slow, get your arses in gear buy a ticket and get behind the lads''

[bob]

I can't see us spending much in the summer. They were probably hoping to sell Benteke for £25m.

Maybe we'll spend £10m, and it'll be more of the same next season.

[pauliewalnuts]

The club (well, Paul Faulkner) has spoken.

http://bit.ly/1ihxu6A

Load of bollocks - what he is really saying is that 'Ticket sales for the Southampton game are really slow, get your arses in gear buy a ticket and get behind the lads''

There is nothing he can say, really, he's on to a loser and soon he starts to say something. I would have thought that empty statements like that are probably more trouble than they are worth.

All they need to do is beat Southampton at home on Saturday. Nothing else matters right now.