The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Monty]

And that's a point, John, which has been proven to be too simplistic throughout the whole of football history. Much too simplistic.

[pauliewalnuts]

My general point being that too much emphasis on us right now is placed upon the style, when in truth what we need is better players.  One will follow the other.

I disagree entirely. Better players wouldn't - and didn't - improve MON's style.

The teams that do the best are the teams which base their game around relatively simple things - movement off the ball, creating space, keeping the ball (made much easier when you create that space to receive the ball).

If you don't do that, then you're limited, no matter how good your players. There's no doubt, for example, that the current squad we have now are capable of playing a more possession based game - we know that because we saw it last season. We weren't exactly Barcelona, but in comparison to this year's efforts, we were.

So why aren't we doing it this season?

At this point, no doubt, someone will point out we're 4 points better off than we were this time last year. I don't think 4 points either way of last year's level of performance is anything to really boast too loudly about. This season we've consistently failed to execute even the basics for long periods of time.

It isn't coincidence that in the last two seasons we've broken a series of abysmal records. When you can't get the basics right, that's what happens.

[Concrete John]

Yet it if it was just a matter of playing in a certain way and you're guaranteed success, then everyone would play the same way.

[Monty]

Yet it if it was just a matter of playing in a certain way and you're guaranteed success, then everyone would play the same way.

Pretty much all the top teams do, and when they don't they generally balls it up. There's great nuance between, say, Chelsea, Barca, Real, Dortmund, Bayern etc, but generally speaking not a single one of them approaches the game like we do.

[pauliewalnuts]

Yet it if it was just a matter of playing in a certain way and you're guaranteed success, then everyone would play the same way.

I'm not saying that at all, and I don't think anyone has.

It's very hard to have success, however you play. It's not easy.

It is, however, nigh on impossible to have success if you are not at least trying to keep the ball with any regularity.

[Ads]

Quality players and effective systems cannot be separated from each other when it comes to good football and ultimately, success.

[Concrete John]

Yet it if it was just a matter of playing in a certain way and you're guaranteed success, then everyone would play the same way.

I'm not saying that at all, and I don't think anyone has.

It's very hard to have success, however you play. It's not easy.

It is, however, nigh on impossible to have success if you are not at least trying to keep the ball with any regularity.

I never said it wasn't.  What I am saying is that it's much easier to keep the ball when there are better players in your side.

[pauliewalnuts]

Yet it if it was just a matter of playing in a certain way and you're guaranteed success, then everyone would play the same way.

I'm not saying that at all, and I don't think anyone has.

It's very hard to have success, however you play. It's not easy.

It is, however, nigh on impossible to have success if you are not at least trying to keep the ball with any regularity.

I never said it wasn't.  What I am saying is that it's much easier to keep the ball when there are better players in your side.

I'd agree with that.

What I'd like to see us do is keep the ball at least as well as you'd expect our squad to be able to do so - even by the measure of last season, we're failing. Compared against almost every other team in this league, we pass less, have the ball less.

[Concrete John]

My general point being that too much emphasis on us right now is placed upon the style, when in truth what we need is better players.  One will follow the other.

I disagree entirely. Better players wouldn't - and didn't - improve MON's style.

The teams that do the best are the teams which base their game around relatively simple things - movement off the ball, creating space, keeping the ball (made much easier when you create that space to receive the ball).

If you don't do that, then you're limited, no matter how good your players. There's no doubt, for example, that the current squad we have now are capable of playing a more possession based game - we know that because we saw it last season. We weren't exactly Barcelona, but in comparison to this year's efforts, we were.

So why aren't we doing it this season?

At this point, no doubt, someone will point out we're 4 points better off than we were this time last year. I don't think 4 points either way of last year's level of performance is anything to really boast too loudly about. This season we've consistently failed to execute even the basics for long periods of time.

It isn't coincidence that in the last two seasons we've broken a series of abysmal records. When you can't get the basics right, that's what happens.

Some of those records were last season, where you say we yourself we played a more posession based game.  So is the style changing anything or are seeing marginal improvement as the young squad slowly develops?

[Monty]

Nothing about Lambert suggests he knows how to inculcate a really competent passing game in a side. It doesn't make him useless, but if you're saying that this kind of football will just inevitably follow under his reign I have to disagree.

[pauliewalnuts]

My general point being that too much emphasis on us right now is placed upon the style, when in truth what we need is better players.  One will follow the other.

I disagree entirely. Better players wouldn't - and didn't - improve MON's style.

The teams that do the best are the teams which base their game around relatively simple things - movement off the ball, creating space, keeping the ball (made much easier when you create that space to receive the ball).

If you don't do that, then you're limited, no matter how good your players. There's no doubt, for example, that the current squad we have now are capable of playing a more possession based game - we know that because we saw it last season. We weren't exactly Barcelona, but in comparison to this year's efforts, we were.

So why aren't we doing it this season?

At this point, no doubt, someone will point out we're 4 points better off than we were this time last year. I don't think 4 points either way of last year's level of performance is anything to really boast too loudly about. This season we've consistently failed to execute even the basics for long periods of time.

It isn't coincidence that in the last two seasons we've broken a series of abysmal records. When you can't get the basics right, that's what happens.

Some of those records were last season, where you say we yourself we played a more posession based game.  So is the style changing anything or are seeing marginal improvement as the young squad slowly develops?

I think the style has got worse, and the results are largely the same thus far.

There's certainly precious little sign of squad improvement going on.

[PeterWithesShin]

Next season is the key for me. If we're still getting the same kind performances and results after what I believe will be the kind of players we sign in the summer then it will be time to say enough is enough.

[pauliewalnuts]

Next season is the key for me. If we're still getting the same kind performances and results after what I believe will be the kind of players we sign in the summer then it will be time to say enough is enough.

I wonder what happens if we don't sign the sort of players we'd like to see in the summer.

I also wonder whether we'll be able to make them, given it is a World Cup summer, which invariably makes things more complicated.

[Clampy]

Next season is the key for me. If we're still getting the same kind performances and results after what I believe will be the kind of players we sign in the summer then it will be time to say enough is enough.

That's my take on it as well.

[Dave Clark Five]

If we don't sign the right players in the summer then there is no point continuing with him. Nothing happens in the January window and we don't want another season of dross like this.