The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[Monty]

Well, let's say we offered £8m for Kiyotake but they wanted more. I doubt very much that they'd have rejected £15m. We really, really need this type of player, but Lambert was more prepared to overpay for a backup centre-forward than he was to overpay for the playmaker. The way he said 'I call them "number 10s"' was really cringe-inducing.

[placeforparks]

Agreed IV. He brought in a £7m backup centre-forward when, if he really didn't trust the midfield, he should have done more to address the first-choice for the centre of the pitch.

He tried to.

I'm sure he did, but he had limited money to spend and managed to spend £7m of it on a backup Big Man forward

That's because the 'Big Man Forward' in question was available. Maybe, just maybe the play making midfielders he wanted were not available. We all know Hoolahan wasn't.

hoolahan is some journeyman midfielder who is nearly 32, has played 2 full season in the premier league, belittled the club who pays his wages and people talked about him like he was the messiah. talk about desperate.

[Clampy]

Well, let's say we offered £8m for Kiyotake but they wanted more. I doubt very much that they'd have rejected £15m. We really, really need this type of player, but Lambert was more prepared to overpay for a backup centre-forward than he was to overpay for the playmaker. The way he said 'I call them "number 10s"' was really cringe-inducing.

Do you personally think this Kiyotake is worth £15m though? How much have you seen of him? And do you know how long he has left on his contract?

[Clampy]

Agreed IV. He brought in a £7m backup centre-forward when, if he really didn't trust the midfield, he should have done more to address the first-choice for the centre of the pitch.

He tried to.

I'm sure he did, but he had limited money to spend and managed to spend £7m of it on a backup Big Man forward

That's because the 'Big Man Forward' in question was available. Maybe, just maybe the play making midfielders he wanted were not available. We all know Hoolahan wasn't.

hoolahan is some journeyman midfielder who is nearly 32, has played 2 full season in the premier league, belittled the club who pays his wages and people talked about him like he was the messiah. talk about desperate.

I didn't see much talk of 'messiah' about him on here.

[Monty]

I'm not saying he is worth that (though reports from friends and journalists I trust are very positive indeed), but would you really say Kozak is worth £7m? I like him, but he isn't worth that much, and that's my point - Lambert's priorities are clearly shown up by his willingness to overspend on one position on the one hand, and completely bypass the signing of another position on the other. Those are his priorities.

[placeforparks]

Agreed IV. He brought in a £7m backup centre-forward when, if he really didn't trust the midfield, he should have done more to address the first-choice for the centre of the pitch.

He tried to.

I'm sure he did, but he had limited money to spend and managed to spend £7m of it on a backup Big Man forward

That's because the 'Big Man Forward' in question was available. Maybe, just maybe the play making midfielders he wanted were not available. We all know Hoolahan wasn't.

hoolahan is some journeyman midfielder who is nearly 32, has played 2 full season in the premier league, belittled the club who pays his wages and people talked about him like he was the messiah. talk about desperate.

I didn't much talk of 'messiah' about him on here.

it was a general rant really. i'm tired of the lack of ambition of everyone connected with our club.

[Irish villain]

Agreed IV. He brought in a £7m backup centre-forward when, if he really didn't trust the midfield, he should have done more to address the first-choice for the centre of the pitch.

He tried to.

I'm sure he did, but he had limited money to spend and managed to spend £7m of it on a backup Big Man forward

That's because the 'Big Man Forward' in question was available. Maybe, just maybe the play making midfielders he wanted were not available. We all know Hoolahan wasn't.

hoolahan is some journeyman midfielder who is nearly 32, has played 2 full season in the premier league, belittled the club who pays his wages and people talked about him like he was the messiah. talk about desperate.

I didn't much talk of 'messiah' about him on here.

it was a general rant really. i'm tired of the lack of ambition of everyone connected with our club.

I know. When I think back to the summer of 2010 and compare it to now....Back then the debate was whether or not MON deserved another chance or whether Randy should go get a top manager to take us into the top four!

Talk about different parameters.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

The man has shown he has variety and subtly, particularly away from home, in the set up of the side and I can think of no other explanation as to why he still ploughs the same furrow at Villa Park.

I'll give you 'variety' but 'subtly', I guess it depends on your definition of the word. Playing a back 5 with 3 defensive midfielders away at West Ham who had no recognised striker on the pitch certainly wasn't subtle . I don't think it's unfair to describe Lambert as tactically shambolic. You say he has no faith in the midfield but from most of the games this season he's shown a complete lack of faith in his team.

I wonder how much faith he has right now in his own ability? As we all know it's a massive job for various reasons, maybe it's no co-incidence that when he recently went on the defensive about criticism, Lerner jumped up and offered him an extended contract.

[Clampy]

I'm not saying he is worth that (though reports from friends and journalists I trust are very positive indeed), but would you really say Kozak is worth £7m? I like him, but he isn't worth that much, and that's my point - Lambert's priorities are clearly shown up by his willingness to overspend on one position on the one hand, and completely bypass the signing of another position on the other. Those are his priorities.

Well Kozak was top scorer in the Europa League so he was never going to come cheap. He'd have cost us double had we brought him from over here. Cardiff paid god knows how much for that Cornelius or whatever his name was. Norwich paid a fair whack for that Van Wolfswinkel, so it's not as if we've been mugged.

[Monty]

I'm not saying he is worth that (though reports from friends and journalists I trust are very positive indeed), but would you really say Kozak is worth £7m? I like him, but he isn't worth that much, and that's my point - Lambert's priorities are clearly shown up by his willingness to overspend on one position on the one hand, and completely bypass the signing of another position on the other. Those are his priorities.

Well Kozak was top scorer in the Europa League so he was never going to come cheap. He'd have cost us double had we brought him from over here. Cardiff paid god knows how much for that Cornelius or whatever his name was. Norwich paid a fair whack for that Van Wolfswinkel, so it's not as if we've been mugged.

No we haven't been mugged, and like I say I actually like Kozak. I do think, however, that we overpaid for him and his signing shouldn't have been an uncompromisable priority. We'd probably have to overpay for any of these players - Lambert chose to overpay for the back up big man centre forward, and left us entirely without a central attacking midfielder. Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

[Chris Smith]

Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

That's the worst kind of arrogance as far as I am concerned. You are basically saying "if you don't see things exactly as I see them, your views are not worthy of consideration".

[eastie]

I'm not so sure it was a case of one or the other for Kozak or a playmaker - I think the money may well have been available for both but Kozak became available 1st - hopefully we will get the playmaker targeted in the summer .

[Monty]

Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

That's the worst kind of arrogance as far as I am concerned. You are basically saying "if you don't see things exactly as I see them, your views are not worthy of consideration".

You're right, 'delusional' is a harsh word, so if I may I'd rather put it that people who believe that are, in my view, believing that contrary to evidence. I certainly don't think that other people's views are unworthy of consideration, so I hope I don't qualify for that definition of arrogance you've posited there.

[Chris Smith]

Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

That's the worst kind of arrogance as far as I am concerned. You are basically saying "if you don't see things exactly as I see them, your views are not worthy of consideration".

You're right, 'delusional' is a harsh word, so if I may I'd rather put it that people who believe that are, in my view, believing that contrary to evidence. I certainly don't think that other people's views are unworthy of consideration, so I hope I don't qualify for that definition of arrogance you've posited there.

Fair enough, Monty. I mentioned it because it seemed unlike you as in general, despite strongly held views, you are respectful of those who see things differently.

[Monty]

Anyone who sees this and thinks Lambert has somewhere inside him the passing mentality of a Martinez or a Rodgers, a mentality which we kind of need right now, to give us some sort of identity - anyone who thinks he has this in him is delusional.

That's the worst kind of arrogance as far as I am concerned. You are basically saying "if you don't see things exactly as I see them, your views are not worthy of consideration".

You're right, 'delusional' is a harsh word, so if I may I'd rather put it that people who believe that are, in my view, believing that contrary to evidence. I certainly don't think that other people's views are unworthy of consideration, so I hope I don't qualify for that definition of arrogance you've posited there.

Fair enough, Monty. I mentioned it because it seemed unlike you as in general, despite strongly held views, you are respectful of those who see things differently.

Well thanks for calling me out on it Chris, because I certainly used that word too glibly. Now let's have a hug.