The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[adrenachrome]

I reckon we will be comfortably safe this season and a few places higher.

That gives him another year before I get all antsy.

Not to say I don't have some concerns but now is not the time for the trigger to be pulled. I make my judgement at the end of next season.

I am half reliably informed we have money to shoot with this Summer. Give him that. If it doesn't work out we will still be well away from trouble and thanks for your time.

If it does, that is what we all want.

Stick with it for now but with an eyebrow raised is what I would be telling him if I was Randolph.

Pretty much what I think in my rare moments of calm rationality, and I a big fan of the furrowed brow. Give it the full Rickman, though:





 

[hartman_1982]

I reckon we will be comfortably safe this season and a few places higher.

That gives him another year before I get all antsy.

Not to say I don't have some concerns but now is not the time for the trigger to be pulled. I make my judgement at the end of next season.

I am half reliably informed we have money to shoot with this Summer. Give him that. If it doesn't work out we will still be well away from trouble and thanks for your time.

If it does, that is what we all want.

Stick with it for now but with an eyebrow raised is what I would be telling him if I was Randolph.

This is more or less how I feel.

My biggest issue with Lambert tends to be his tactics, rather than his transfers or more personal stuff.  He seems to want us to play very narrow, and through the middle, but he doesn't have the players at his disposal (eg a creative attacking midfielder) to play that way but he's persisted with it regardless.  Theres having to courage of your convictions, and then theres being too stubborn for your own good.

Its been said a million times, but I think if (BIG IF) he can spend a Benteke/Kozak-sized wedge on 2 or 3 decent players in the summer then I think we'd have a fairly good side.  However, I don't think will have the managerial skill or financial backing to take us anywhere above 8th or so.

I told myself when he came in that I'd try and wait to make a final judgment on the manager at the end of his first 3 years.  My view of the future is that we won't see the doom-and-gloom-everything-is-shit that a lot of people think will happen, but we won't turn into a Brummie-BVB either.  Although unless something happens about the home form I'm gonna lose my shit.

I may be lying to myself but I do think that this is the summer when we are able to sign quality again. We have set decent foundations now and with a base of Guzan, Okore, Vlaar, Westwood, Delph, Gabby and Benteke we have something to build on. Bertrand, a 10 and the next Yaya Toure would be perfect.

[Isa]

It depends which angle you're taking on it. If you're arguing that we haven't got value for money then I disagree, I'd argue most of the signings we've made have maintained or increased in value since they've been with Villa. However if you want to look at whether the players we've signed are of the required quality then I think there's a strong argument to suggest that the majority don't appear to be.

I think the latter is generally how signings are judged. If they are not of the 'required quality' for this level, then they haven't been good signings really.

The point I was making is that all his signings* have at one time or another, shown great potential but have failed to demonstrate a level of consistency or development

I'd have to disagree. I don't think most of them have shown 'great potential' at all. Rather lots of our fans overhyped certain players as they often do. Lowton, who you question what has happened to him in your post, is an example. He gained most of his plaudits for his offensive contribution but defensively he was always iffy. He was just not as bad as the others in the defence (not difficult given how woeful the defence last season were) which made him look better than he was. This season the defence has improved and he is now being exposed as a poor defender.

We also seem to agree that when he spends more money on the likes of Benteke, Okore and Kozak he does well.

I'm not sure why Kozak is being included in that as he has shown nothing to suggest he is a good quality player. In terms of footballing and technical ability he is extremely limited. A clogger to put it bluntly. A few poacher-esque goals don't compensate for that. This was all evident from when he played at Lazio anyway.

[PaulWinch again]

Well you say that, but that's not what the original argument was about. It was about whether we'd lose money on a lot of our signings, and I don't think we would.

[aj2k77]

Well you say that, but that's not what the original argument was about. It was about whether we'd lose money on a lot of our signings, and I don't think we would.

Who do you think we would make a profit on? Benteke, Guzan and Vlaar obviously have been successes to various degrees.

[Villa in Denmark]

I think the latter is generally how signings are judged. If they are not of the 'required quality' for this level, then they haven't been good signings really.

Well you say that, but that's not what the original argument was about. It was about whether we'd lose money on a lot of our signings, and I don't think we would.

As Paul says, the original point was about whether we'd lose money on these players.

The other aspect is whether you think this where we going to be shopping from now until the end of time (or Randy whichever comes first.)
If yes, then no they're not of the required quality to get us back towards the top 6.

If no then they're a temporary solution whilst the club sorted out the underlying financial problems, and whilst the days of spending £18M on the likes of Darren Bent may be gone forever, or at least a long way off, the possibility of buying more Vlaar, Okore or Benteke price players should be more doable.

As I've previously said the analogy is living in temporary accommodation whilst your house is undergoing major renovation. You can live a 5 star hotel or slum it in a caravan, or anywhere in between.  Most people would choose the cheapest solution, that is just about acceptable. That way there's more left over for the finishing touches.

This summer will be the acid test.

[PaulWinch again]

Well you say that, but that's not what the original argument was about. It was about whether we'd lose money on a lot of our signings, and I don't think we would.

Who do you think we would make a profit on? Benteke, Guzan and Vlaar obviously have been successes to various degrees.

Lowton, Bacuna, Westwood, I don't see how Kozak has lost value since his scoring rate in the league has improved, Okore.

[Villa in Denmark]

Well you say that, but that's not what the original argument was about. It was about whether we'd lose money on a lot of our signings, and I don't think we would.

Who do you think we would make a profit on? Benteke, Guzan and Vlaar obviously have been successes to various degrees.

Well that all depends on
1)What you understand profit to mean
and
2)How much you think we paid for Lowton, Bennett, Westwood, and Bacuna to name a few.

If you take a pure accountancy point of view, we almost can't fail to record a profit from around now on summer 2012 signings as their value on the balance sheet will be approaching zero due to rules on amortisation of the value of their registration. For those that signed new terms in the summer, I can't remember how the new signing on fee is treated, either as cashflow or can be treated as capital investment as it's extending the life of an asset(This will be what you see in the audited accounts.)

If you mean could we sell for more than we paid then question 2 is relevant.  The values you've previously quoted seem to be at odds with what Lambert had previously intimated, especially with reference to Lowton and Westwood, who appear to be less than £1M each.

Personally I'd expect us to at least break even on the vast majority of them.

If you really want to talk about wasting money, ask Cardiff how they feel about the Cornelius transfer.

[LeeB]

Well you say that, but that's not what the original argument was about. It was about whether we'd lose money on a lot of our signings, and I don't think we would.

Who do you think we would make a profit on? Benteke, Guzan and Vlaar obviously have been successes to various degrees.

Well that all depends on
1)What you understand profit to mean
and
2)How much you think we paid for Lowton, Bennett, Westwood, and Bacuna to name a few.

If you take a pure accountancy point of view, we almost can't fail to record a profit from around now on summer 2012 signings as their value on the balance sheet will be approaching zero due to rules on amortisation of the value of their registration. For those that signed new terms in the summer, I can't remember how the new signing on fee is treated, either as cashflow or can be treated as capital investment as it's extending the life of an asset(This will be what you see in the audited accounts.)

If you mean could we sell for more than we paid then question 2 is relevant.  The values you've previously quoted seem to be at odds with what Lambert had previously intimated, especially with reference to Lowton and Westwood, who appear to be less than £1M each.

Personally I'd expect us to at least break even on the vast majority of them.

If you really want to talk about wasting money, ask Cardiff how they feel about the Cornelius transfer.

Look, he's bought badly and he's a shit manager.

Will you stop bringing rationalised thought to the debate, it's upsetting folk.

[Villa in Denmark]

Sorry Lee, and anyone else that's just determined to say everything is shit. I'll keep my gob shut in future.

On second thoughts bollocks I've always been a gobby git, why change the habbits of the ladt 43 years.

And just to clarify, I don't think everything in the garden is rosey, but I can see a possible reason to the madness. This coming summer is definitely shit or get off the pot.

[Legion]

Sorry Lee, and anyone else that's just determined to say everything is shit. I'll keep my gob shut in future.

On second thoughts bollocks I've always been a gobby git, why change the habbits of the ladt 43 years.

And just to clarify, I don't think everything in the garden is rosey, but I can see a possible reason to the madness. This coming summer is definitely shit or get off the pot.

I think Lee is joking.

[Villa in Denmark]

Yeah I got Lee was joking.
A poor attempt at acknowledging the joke, whilst venting frustration over the willful refusal by some to back up viewpoints with reasonable debate, and resorting to X,Y and Z is shit and it's always going to be shit, and if anyone says otherwise metaphorically sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting Nah, nah I can't hear you repeatedly.

[danlanza]

So is ViD

[LeeB]

We're all just having a big funny laugh then.

[LeeB]

Sorry Lee, and anyone else that's just determined to say everything is shit. I'll keep my gob shut in future.

On second thoughts bollocks I've always been a gobby git, why change the habbits of the ladt 43 years.

And just to clarify, I don't think everything in the garden is rosey, but I can see a possible reason to the madness. This coming summer is definitely shit or get off the pot.

I couldn't agree more mate.