The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[bertlambshank]

I think Lambert would be in credit even with Benteke excluded.  I'm amazed anyone would think otherwise to be honest.
That's not to say that all the players are good enough more a reflection on how cheap they were.

How much would you pay for Tonev then?

[DB]

When does Lerner's contract run out???

[tomd2103]

I think Westwood will come good one day. Ditto with Clark. You can see they are footballers.

In terms of Lambert purely Lambert signings, (I have always been confused about Westwood, was the 30 game dossier our's or something Lambert took with him from Norwich?!), I think he did well with Lowton, Bacuna, Sylla (for how he slotted in last year), and Kozak (even if I am not sure he was what we needed to spend £7m on). He brilliantly with Vlaar and Benteke though I think he should have kept Collins for a further year.

KEA, Bennet, Tonev, Luna haven't impressed me while Bowery was such an odd one. Really. Can't comment on Helenius yet and Okore probably a great signing if we could just see him play.

Agree, but he needs to be handled correctly.  He shouldn't be playing every game at this stage and when he does play, he needs to play in a three man midfield with players who can do his running for him either side.  He's simply not athletic or physical enough to play in a two man midfield in the top flight. 

[Villa in Denmark]

I think the fact that Lambert has reverted to type, by signing Holt and attempting to sign Hoolihan, shows his limited imagination.  Mid table is about as good as it's ever going to get under him.  If mid table floats Randy's boat, then we are in for another three years.  Like someone else said, I am bored of this hobby.  The football is crap, the players he has signed this season are very poor. How many of Lambert's signings would yield a profit, other than Benteke? That in itself shows how very, very poor this Villa side is.  He has had every opportunity to bring in some defensive backbone, some creativity, and failed to do so.

I hope to God the Villa hierarchy read this thread!!  No way would I offer him a new contract. Wait until at least the New Year.

I think most of his signings could be sold for more than we paid for them (different from registering a profit), simply because they're now "Premier League experienced".
We'd have to give them away to not break even on most.

Sylla
Luna
Kea
Bowery
Kozak
Bennett
Lowton
Tonev
Helenius

We'd lose money on that mob there.

On the basis that we paid absolute peanuts for Sylla, Bowery, Bennett and Lowton, I don't see how we'd lose money on them. And the quoted figures for Lowton and Westwood were apparently well off the mark, less than £1M a throw.

How much did we pay for Sylla? £700K?

Helenius was always going to be a bit part player this season.  Again at just over £1M, I don't see how we could lose too much there.
If he starts playing next season we can't fail to get the money back.

Kozak, is by popular consensus not £7M straight up, more 5 plus add-ons. Regular international starter that had started to show a reasonable scoring record in the Prem. Not going to lose too much there either.

Tonev and KEA I'll give you.

But even if we lost 80% on the lot of them, it will still be a smaller loss than we'll make on Bent.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think the fact that Lambert has reverted to type, by signing Holt and attempting to sign Hoolihan, shows his limited imagination.  Mid table is about as good as it's ever going to get under him.  If mid table floats Randy's boat, then we are in for another three years.  Like someone else said, I am bored of this hobby.  The football is crap, the players he has signed this season are very poor. How many of Lambert's signings would yield a profit, other than Benteke? That in itself shows how very, very poor this Villa side is.  He has had every opportunity to bring in some defensive backbone, some creativity, and failed to do so.

I hope to God the Villa hierarchy read this thread!!  No way would I offer him a new contract. Wait until at least the New Year.

I think most of his signings could be sold for more than we paid for them (different from registering a profit), simply because they're now "Premier League experienced".
We'd have to give them away to not break even on most.

Sylla
Luna
Kea
Bowery
Kozak
Bennett
Lowton
Tonev
Helenius

We'd lose money on that mob there.

No we wouldn't

Apart from anything else, if you're going to start berating him for buying a load of players we'd lose money on, why do you get to ignore the one player we'd probably make an enormous profit on, one which would cover the purchase price of all those players combined?

[PeterWithesShin]

How much of a loss would we make on Guzan and Benteke? Okore will go way up in value imo. If we sold Vlaar now we;d make a profit. Even from the list aj posted, the losses would be less than NRC.

[Toronto Villa]

He's already gone on record as saying many of the quoted prices on players purchased are higher than what was paid. That also might apply to Benteke. Even the players who might be deemed surplus to requirements I would bet for all of them we'd get at least our money back. Overall he's well in the black it if we are looking hypothetically at the profit if his signings were all sold. The bigger issue is that what role do some of those players have in the future? We simply cannot have so much annual turnover so some of that list need to step up and make the grade.

[ROBBO]

Not sure about Vlaar any manager worth his salt will take note of his injury record of late. Benteke's price has probably dropped from six months ago. I agree we wouldn't lose overall on lamberts purchases.

[brian green]

It's all small change in the world of bloated soccernomics.   Lambert has done okay in his buying but okay is not what it is about.   The gorilla at the table is do we have an owner who accepts the financial realities of challenging for anything worth winning or do we have an owner who wants to ring fence his investment?   I don't have a clue to the answer to that one and I spend on average ninety percent of my waking hours mythering about the Villa.

[Malandro]

The gorilla at the table is do we have an owner who accepts the financial realities of challenging for anything worth winning or do we have an owner who wants to ring fence his investment?   I don't have a clue to the answer to that one and I spend on average ninety percent of my waking hours mythering about the Villa.

ha, the same here.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

It's all small change in the world of bloated soccernomics.   Lambert has done okay in his buying but okay is not what it is about.   The gorilla at the table is do we have an owner who accepts the financial realities of challenging for anything worth winning or do we have an owner who wants to ring fence his investment?   I don't have a clue to the answer to that one and I spend on average ninety percent of my waking hours mythering about the Villa.

Ha! I've no idea either Brian but apart from the "gorilla at the table" there's also an elephant in the room being Paul Lambert. It's obvious the decision to extend Lambert's contract was Lerner's and Lerner's alone. For he life of me I can't understand the decision, right now it makes absolutely no sense. None. Trying to understand Lerner's thought process regarding the way he wants the club to be run is beyond me. It would be logical to conclude that by demonstrating such faith in his manager with a contract extension he's willing to back him financially but on the other side you have to seriously question whether or not he's seen us play this season.

My guess is he sees Lambert not only as a lovely manager to deal with but somebody that will eventually get it right and deliver on budget, whatever that budget may be. Maybe Lambert didn't have the right scouting network last summer having lost his chief scout and that is one of the things "the club have been working on behind the scenes"  and now put right. What he's failing to understand is his team could be playing next season with Villa Park attendances dropping below 30,000, assuming of course we manage to stay up.

It's a massive leap of faith on Lerner's part and one where I think he'll live to regret. Having spent of 15m in compensation to former managers, you'd think he'd have learned his lesson by now but I seriously have my doubts he has.

[adrenachrome]

It's all small change in the world of bloated soccernomics.   Lambert has done okay in his buying but okay is not what it is about.   The gorilla at the table is do we have an owner who accepts the financial realities of challenging for anything worth winning or do we have an owner who wants to ring fence his investment?  I don't have a clue to the answer to that one and I spend on average ninety percent of my waking hours mythering about the Villa.

Its a conundrum alright, Brian.  The gorilla at the table might well have scoffed all the victuals and fucked off into the mist without a by your leave.  70's prog rock combo Atomic Rooster had this to say:

People are looking but they don't know what to do
It's the time of the season for the people like you
Come back tomorrow, show the scars on your face
It's a clue to the answer we all chase

[Legion]

The goldfish in the bowl is totally out of his depth.

[supertom]

All these guesswork selling fees would be reliant on there actually being buyers for these players. I don't think Lambert would make a profit on many of his players, for the simple fact that Tonev, Luna, Bennett, Helenius, KEA, Sylla, Westwood, Lowton, Steer and Bowery won't have other clubs queuing up to buy them. Firstly no other Prem sides will look at any of them and think it's worth a shot. Secondly because no lower league sides will be willing to pay what we ask for some of them, IF indeed we're looking to make a profit. Thirdly, in the case of some of them, I honestly believe they'd be lucky to have League 1 sides after them, and they'd be put off buying from a Prem club at the wages/fees expected. Same goes for overseas buyers. The clubs potentially buying won't be rolling in cash. 

Bacuna would probably double his fee. Benteke is looking shit again, but he'd still fetch 15 million on current form, double what we paid. Kozak may well break even.

[aj2k77]

I think the fact that Lambert has reverted to type, by signing Holt and attempting to sign Hoolihan, shows his limited imagination.  Mid table is about as good as it's ever going to get under him.  If mid table floats Randy's boat, then we are in for another three years.  Like someone else said, I am bored of this hobby.  The football is crap, the players he has signed this season are very poor. How many of Lambert's signings would yield a profit, other than Benteke? That in itself shows how very, very poor this Villa side is.  He has had every opportunity to bring in some defensive backbone, some creativity, and failed to do so.

I hope to God the Villa hierarchy read this thread!!  No way would I offer him a new contract. Wait until at least the New Year.

I think most of his signings could be sold for more than we paid for them (different from registering a profit), simply because they're now "Premier League experienced".
We'd have to give them away to not break even on most.

Sylla
Luna
Kea
Bowery
Kozak
Bennett
Lowton
Tonev
Helenius

We'd lose money on that mob there.

No we wouldn't

Apart from anything else, if you're going to start berating him for buying a load of players we'd lose money on, why do you get to ignore the one player we'd probably make an enormous profit on, one which would cover the purchase price of all those players combined?

I wasn't talking about Benteke though was I. I specifically said we'd lose money on that group of players. Do you disagree? Do you think we'd get £20m for that lot or that it was value for money?